Steve Goodall Posted 3 February Share Posted 3 February Here’s a chap that I found when researching the family of a Military Medal that I recently purchased… George Luther Arnott Gelder Service No. 106070 Corporal, 186th "M" Special Company, Royal Engineers. Killed in action on 21 December 1915, near Fleurbaix. Buried Rue-Petillon Military Cemetery. Plot I. H. 75. Buried alongside a Corporal Capstick (Service No. 134038) from the same unit who died the same day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 3 February Author Share Posted 3 February (edited) 1 hour ago, Steve Goodall said: Here’s a chap that I found when researching the family of a Military Medal that I recently purchased… George Luther Arnott Gelder Service No. 106070 Corporal, 186th "M" Special Company, Royal Engineers. Killed in action on 21 December 1915, near Fleurbaix. Buried Rue-Petillon Military Cemetery. Plot I. H. 75. Buried alongside a Corporal Capstick (Service No. 134038) from the same unit who died the same day. Thanks Steve. Just a point, he did not serve with “M” Special Company per you post. This company only came into existence in 1916 with No 3 Battalion when the SB was expanded. The reference to might be to M Depot Company at St Mary's Barracks, Chatham, which served as the depot company for the Special Companies until 1916 when it was moved to Withnoe near Devonport, consisting of “A” and “B” Reserve Companies. TR Edited 3 February by Terry_Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Goodall Posted 3 February Share Posted 3 February 1 hour ago, Terry_Reeves said: Thanks Steve. Just a point, he did not serve with “M” Special Company per you post. This company only came into existence in 1916 with No 3 Battalion when the SB was expanded. The reference to might be to M Depot Company at St Mary's Barracks, Chatham, which served as the depot company for the Special Companies until 1916 when it was moved to Withnoe near Devonport, consisting of “A” and “B” Reserve Companies. TR Thanks Terry. I was just copying what it says in UK Soldiers, Died in the Great War. However, Army Register of Effects has him in 188th Company, as does CWGC. Long, Long Trail says there was only a 186th and 187th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 3 February Author Share Posted 3 February (edited) 43 minutes ago, Steve Goodall said: Thanks Terry. I was just copying what it says in UK Soldiers, Died in the Great War. However, Army Register of Effects has him in 188th Company, as does CWGC. Long, Long Trail says there was only a 186th and 187th? No worries. The original companies were 186, 187, 188, 189 and, for a very short period, 190 company. I think it took a little time for the authorities tp catch up with the change over from Special Companies to Special Battalions and the companies therein. TR Edited 3 February by Terry_Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeba90 Posted 15 February Share Posted 15 February Hello 👋 I have a few ancestors I need help trying to find or locate more information about. I've tried using what resource I had available but I'm very limited to what I can find. My Great Grandfather Charles Lionel St John was told to have been a Sergeant in the Ceylon Light Infantry in WW2 and prior to WW2 but I cannot for the life of me find any information. My Great Great Grandfather Harry Lionel Rodney St John (born 1867) was a Planter in Ceylon. He was also apart of the Ceylon Planters Rifle Corps and was called up for active service in WW1. My 2 x Great Granduncles also served in the 5th Bn. Special Brigade as Royal Engineers SN: 129813 Harry Lionel St John SN: 129806 Rodney Lionel St John they were also part of the Middlesex Regime prior to transferring across to RE Spec Brigd. They have their residence listed as Thornbury and enlistment in Middlesex. But definitely residing in Sri Lanka as Harry Lionel St John had 8 children with Miriam St John who live in Neboda. Thank you for any assistance 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 15 February Author Share Posted 15 February 21 hours ago, beeba90 said: Hello 👋 I have a few ancestors I need help trying to find or locate more information about. I've tried using what resource I had available but I'm very limited to what I can find. My Great Grandfather Charles Lionel St John was told to have been a Sergeant in the Ceylon Light Infantry in WW2 and prior to WW2 but I cannot for the life of me find any information. My Great Great Grandfather Harry Lionel Rodney St John (born 1867) was a Planter in Ceylon. He was also apart of the Ceylon Planters Rifle Corps and was called up for active service in WW1. My 2 x Great Granduncles also served in the 5th Bn. Special Brigade as Royal Engineers SN: 129813 Harry Lionel St John SN: 129806 Rodney Lionel St John they were also part of the Middlesex Regime prior to transferring across to RE Spec Brigd. They have their residence listed as Thornbury and enlistment in Middlesex. But definitely residing in Sri Lanka as Harry Lionel St John had 8 children with Miriam St John who live in Neboda. Thank you for any assistance 😊 I think its is likely that Rodney was killed serving with P Section , 43 or 44 sub-section of No 4 (Mortar) Company. The war diary for that operation notes they fired 139 rounds of smoke ammunition in support of 15th Division, 3 Corps, 4th Army. The diary notes that 2 men were wounded and 11 men were missing. The company commander noted "I regret to say no information can be obtained of the 11 men. After the barrage was completed the officer in charge went to find them and found the trench completely destroyed and no one there. There were no dugouts in the vicinity.” I will look into Harry for you later. Incidentally, both men were transferred to the Special Brigade in March 1916. The war diary is a free download from TNA once you have registered and will give further details of the operations: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/ff72201e455f4442ae2ab9efaf3ef5cc TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeba90 Posted 16 February Share Posted 16 February 6 hours ago, Terry_Reeves said: I think its is likely that Rodney was killed serving with P Section , 43 or 44 sub-section of No 4 (Mortar) Company. The war diary for that operation notes they fired 139 rounds of smoke ammunition in support of 15th Division, 3 Corps, 4th Army. The diary notes that 2 men were wounded and 11 men were missing. The company commander noted "I regret to say no information can be obtained of the 11 men. After the barrage was completed the officer in charge went to find them and found the trench completely destroyed and no one there. There were no dugouts in the vicinity.” I will look into Harry for you later. Incidentally, both men were transferred to the Special Brigade in March 1916. The war diary is a free download from TNA once you have registered and will give further details of the operations: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/ff72201e455f4442ae2ab9efaf3ef5cc TR Thank you so much look forward to hearing from you 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 1 March Author Share Posted 1 March On 16/02/2024 at 05:02, beeba90 said: Thank you so much look forward to hearing from you 😊 beeba90 Sorry about the delay in replying. I haven't been able to track him down to a specific section I'm afraid. I have flagged him up in my database and if anything comes up I will let you know. RE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 8 March Share Posted 8 March (edited) Here's another addition for you Terry, Pioneer 220284 Griffith Morris Gibby, D.O.W. 25-6-1918...2nd Special Company Royal Engineers. Any additional info would me most appreciated. Dave. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/20215/griffith-morris-gibby/ Edited 8 March by Dave66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 8 March Author Share Posted 8 March (edited) Dave, thanks for the photo it is very useful. Below is what I have about him. He has no service record but I did manage to piece a bit of a story together: 220284 Pnr Griffith Morris Gibby No 2 ( Mortar) Coy - 5th Bn Special Brigade There is no service record for him , but I managed to put a summary together from other records. 1888-1918. Born to William and Martha Gibby of Llancefn, Pembrokeshire. 1911 Residing, age 22, at 6 Radcot St, Kennington Park Rd, Kennington London. Pharmaceutical Student and subsequently was a manager a branch of Boots the Chemist. Granted the Freedom of the City of London 10 June 1916 and admitted into the Company of Spectacle Makers. Disembarked France, May 1917. Died of wounds (gas) at 2 Australian CCS 25 June 1918. Buried Grave V B 87, Souvenir Cemetery, Longenuess, France He is noted in the Absent Voters List for Llanycefn and there is a long piece about him in the Carmathen Journal and South Wales Weekly Advertiser 12 June , 1918, which also states that as well as being gassed he was wounded in the right shoulder. It has not been possible to trace the exact operation in which he was gassed however this is a possible: 23.6.18 - NE of Bailleul - 558 rounds phosgene filled , at the positions of 131 IR and 268 RIR at 0130hrs fired by sections E,F,G and H. (Special Brigade Operational Summary). Post-operation report for night 22/23 June shows 1 Officer and 2 OR Wounded AND 4 OR wounded and gassed. He is not commemorated on the Llancefn War Memorial unfortunately. The newspaper article can be found here: https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3679116/3679119. TR Edited 9 March by Terry_Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 8 March Share Posted 8 March Thanks very much for that info Terry, most useful. I had never heard of the special brigade prior to this, so it’s been a very interesting learning curve. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeba90 Posted 10 March Share Posted 10 March On 01/03/2024 at 23:01, Terry_Reeves said: beeba90 Sorry about the delay in replying. I haven't been able to track him down to a specific section I'm afraid. I have flagged him up in my database and if anything comes up I will let you know. RE That is ok I know things like delving in the past can take some time. For my Grandfather Charles Lionel St John. Today I thought I'd do a random google search and used the keywords "St John Ceylon Planter" and I had an image come up that resembled my Great Grandfather, which I had dad confirm it was him but the photo I located was used as a part of a blog about C.I.L. nothing much more about the photo. Regardless its that one little step closer to finding some more information about him Thank you for your help in researching. I truly appreciate the assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 10 March Author Share Posted 10 March 3 hours ago, beeba90 said: That is ok I know things like delving in the past can take some time. For my Grandfather Charles Lionel St John. Today I thought I'd do a random google search and used the keywords "St John Ceylon Planter" and I had an image come up that resembled my Great Grandfather, which I had dad confirm it was him but the photo I located was used as a part of a blog about C.I.L. nothing much more about the photo. Regardless its that one little step closer to finding some more information about him Thank you for your help in researching. I truly appreciate the assistance. Well done and thanks for the photos. I will keep my out for anymore information. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeba90 Posted 11 March Share Posted 11 March On 10/03/2024 at 22:43, Terry_Reeves said: Well done and thanks for the photos. I will keep my out for anymore information. TR I was just given this information and not sure how to try locate anymore information. Could you possibly assist me to see if anymore could be found on my my G.Grandfather please wpuld really appreciate any assistance. C L St. John was the recipient of the Efficiency Medal [Ceylon] and 2 clasps for additional service. The Efficiency Medal as 9193 L/Cpl. CLI on 04.27.1934 628; the First clasp as 9193 Cpl. CLI on 11.01.1935 and 2nd clasp as 9193 Sgt. 3-CLI on 07.16.1943. Chances are he is entitled to the War Medal and Defence Medal too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 14 March Share Posted 14 March John Reardon, born Abersychan in 1884. Parental address: 43, Gray Street, Abertillery, Bedwellty, Monmouthshire There is mention on the following WFA card Regiment: Spec: Bde Re https://www.fold3.com/image/703477599?terms=209512,reardon Enlisted under Special Reserve terms of service on 10 Nov 1914 with the South Wales Borderers, 15190. Disembarked in France on 26 Jan 1915 to join 1st Battalion. Transferred to Royal Engineers, 209512. Medically discharged on 2 Nov 1917. Issued a SWB, List RE/1218. Partial image of Form No S.B. 36. courtesy Fold3, link below https://www.fold3.com/image/644237032?terms=209512,reardon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 14 March Author Share Posted 14 March On 11/03/2024 at 14:08, beeba90 said: I was just given this information and not sure how to try locate anymore information. Could you possibly assist me to see if anymore could be found on my my G.Grandfather please wpuld really appreciate any assistance. C L St. John was the recipient of the Efficiency Medal [Ceylon] and 2 clasps for additional service. The Efficiency Medal as 9193 L/Cpl. CLI on 04.27.1934 628; the First clasp as 9193 Cpl. CLI on 11.01.1935 and 2nd clasp as 9193 Sgt. 3-CLI on 07.16.1943. Chances are he is entitled to the War Medal and Defence Medal too. Afraid I can’t help with that. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeba90 Posted 14 March Share Posted 14 March 31 minutes ago, Terry_Reeves said: Afraid I can’t help with that. TR Ok thank you so much Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plattyuk Posted 14 March Share Posted 14 March Evening Terry, During your research have you come across the name Walter Campbell-Smith? He was borrowed by Foulkes from the 28th London in 1915 and never went back, remaining with the special brigade and rising to the rank of Lieut-Col. If you have anything about his time with the Gas Companies I would be very grateful. He is mentioned a couple of times by Foulkes in his book GAS! but not much detail. I have attached his MIC Regards Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 15 March Author Share Posted 15 March (edited) 16 hours ago, plattyuk said: Evening Terry, During your research have you come across the name Walter Campbell-Smith? He was borrowed by Foulkes from the 28th London in 1915 and never went back, remaining with the special brigade and rising to the rank of Lieut-Col. If you have anything about his time with the Gas Companies I would be very grateful. He is mentioned a couple of times by Foulkes in his book GAS! but not much detail. I have attached his MIC Regards Mark Platty, I do have some information, but I am away at the moment. This might help in the interim: 1887 - 1988. Bn Edgbaston , Birmingham 30.11.1887. https://londonpast.co.uk/People/SMITHWalterCampbell.shtml https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5832 He served with 4th Battalion. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/33493/page/3130/data.pdf 1939 residing 16 Chelsea Embankment. Civil Servant (Mineralologist). TA Reserve. Edited 15 March by Terry_Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plattyuk Posted 16 March Share Posted 16 March Thanks Terry, great information just what I was after. Best Wishes Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdhamlyn Posted 19 March Share Posted 19 March Hello Terry, I would like to preface by saying that I am a complete novice, but have been looking in to my great great grandfather John Bezer, service number 12410. I have seen the documents on ancestry but I don't really know how to work them out. To my knowledge he joined the Royal Engineers in 1903 and was in the Special Brigade during the First World War, but I may have read it wrong. If you need any more information I can check if I have it. Thanks James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 20 March Share Posted 20 March James There are two men named John Bezer who have service records. The one you mention enlisted in 1903 and was discharged in 1916. I think the one you want is 214607 (ex Worcestershire Regt) whose papers show that he served in the RE Special Brigade in 1917. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 20 March Author Share Posted 20 March (edited) Brian is correct. He initially served worth 1st Garrison Battalion , Worcestershire Regiment before being transferred to the Special Brigade. He served with "N" Special Company, 4th Battalion Special Brigade and the Special Factory Section at Coulogne, on the Calais / St Omer Canal east of Calais. The factory was established in 1915 in an existing French factory who had been producing phosgene for the French Army and owned by a French chemical company, De Lairs's, who had been established in the 19th century. They had specialised in in producing synthetic aroma chemicals, and finished fragrances in which phosgene was used to provide colourants. One of their popular pre-war colours was called "Prussian Blue" which given the war must have raised a wry smile. The story is quite long, but in essence the SB supplied 2 Officers and 200 men to run the phosgene production line for the filling of the Brigade's gas cylinders. The men worked shifts ,24 hrs a day , 7 days a week until the end of the war. There were paid extra for this work. In late 1916 a 4 Inch Stoke mortar filling line was established being run by 1 NCO and 25 men. The men were accommodated at Les Attaques. The factory still stands on the Quai d' Amerique. The road on the opposite side is named Rue du Gaz. You can find using Google maps. The factory is now owned by Calaire Chimine. "N" Company War Diaries (x 4) can be downloaded free, from the National Archives, once registered. TR Edited 20 March by Terry_Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdhamlyn Posted 20 March Share Posted 20 March Hello, Sorry about that, I got myself confused. My great great grandfather was the one who served from 1903 - 1916. Thanks for the help James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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