linden Posted 1 September , 2007 Share Posted 1 September , 2007 Is the interest fading away? With so many hits somebody should have a clue what this piece is good for! Ann, it seems to be too fragile for a pocket watch chain or so How about a chain for a monocle ? Linden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 2 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 2 September , 2007 Thanx for all your comments from last week! Linden in the discussion earlier we have excluded a chain for a monocle as Grandfather did not wear glasses and the chain per se is too fragile to house/carry the glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccermum Posted 3 September , 2007 Share Posted 3 September , 2007 Hello Egbert, I have only recently joined this forum and have spent a long time reading all your wonderful articles. They are truly lovely and I have shed many a tear for your grandmother and for all your family. I wish that I had some memento of my grandfather to keep. Memories are so precious and we have to keep them alive in our hearts. Many thanks to you for this beautiful thread and may I say that it has been a real priviledge to be able to share these treasures with you. Best wishes, Soccermum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 4 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 4 September , 2007 These are Gottfried's 2 sons around 1920. Grandmother seemed to take good care of them in order to fulfill Gottfried's will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 4 September , 2007 Share Posted 4 September , 2007 Lovely boys, Egbert. Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linden Posted 5 September , 2007 Share Posted 5 September , 2007 Thanx for all your comments from last week! Linden in the discussion earlier we have excluded a chain for a monocle as Grandfather did not wear glasses and the chain per se is too fragile to house/carry the glass. Thanks Egbert . Have you decided what it is yet ? Maybe we should send a picture to the "Antiques Roadshow" Linden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Rice Posted 5 September , 2007 Share Posted 5 September , 2007 Great Photo Egbert, hope there is more to come John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 5 September , 2007 Share Posted 5 September , 2007 Thanks Egbert . Have you decided what it is yet ? Maybe we should send a picture to the "Antiques Roadshow" Linden My suggestion was that it is a chain for a pair of pince-nez. I found a picture in a book of a Swiss railway guard/inspector wearing just such a pair, with the little chain attached. It went around his left ear. Unfortunately I could not scan a good enough copy to post. But that is my 'most likely' explanation. Egbert states that his grandfather did not wear glasses however. Maybe his eyesight deteriorated, or maybe they were grandmother's? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Mackenzie Posted 5 September , 2007 Share Posted 5 September , 2007 My suggestion was that it is a chain for a pair of pince-nez. Ian. That is what I thought when the picture was first shown. I think I posted a picture of a pince-nez with a very similar chain (many posts ago). As you say it could have been grandmother's but the light in the dugouts cannot have been fantastic so I would not be surprised if Gottfied's eyesight deteriorated somewhat. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 5 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 5 September , 2007 Well I have pulled the artifact from the trunk and followed again your hints. I do concur now that the chain in question is part of a monocle (not pince nez). The round end of the chain fits indeed around one's ear. Although I have no clues that Grandfather wore a monocle , all hints point into that direction. So case closed for the chain -thanx again for your "insisting" which finally helped identify the item 99.9% Internet photo shows a similar chain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Mackenzie Posted 5 September , 2007 Share Posted 5 September , 2007 But Egbert - your post shows a pince-nez and not a monocle. Which one do you think your grandfather wore? Personally I think it was a pince-nez but there is probably no definate proof one way or another. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 5 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 5 September , 2007 Whatever he may have worn- a monocle or pince nez, the definite conclusion stays buried in the trenches...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 5 September , 2007 Share Posted 5 September , 2007 Perhaps they belonged to a friend if you;re sure he never wore anyhting like that. marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffW Posted 19 September , 2007 Share Posted 19 September , 2007 A fitting tribute to a brave man. R.I.P Gottfried egbert, I would think your Grandfather would as be proud of you as you are of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcCulloch Posted 20 September , 2007 Share Posted 20 September , 2007 Great thread!! Egbert- I strongly urge you to publish this as a book. This thread is riveting. The field letters would be valuable historical documents as well. However, I do not think your Grandfather received the 1897 Centennial medal. He was only 15 (and too young for service) when the medal was granted. In the photos the medal appears too small. Instead I think he had the Prussian long service medal 3rd class. A notation in his Militarpass will tell us for certain. below is the Landwehr version of this medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcCulloch Posted 20 September , 2007 Share Posted 20 September , 2007 Well said Susan, thanx ALL for your interest. Now - lets continue; what's that? A wallet: Don't know though what's inside Ah-Ha!! That is a ribbon bar on the left there. I believe that is for the Volkspflege medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 20 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 20 September , 2007 Thank you Geoff and JMc - appreciate your thoughts! W/R to the Centenar medal: we evaluated some 3 years ago and a SME came to the conclusion it should be a Centenar medal (see photo detail). Yes it was issued 1897 but Grandfather was some 16 years old. With 15/16 you already could serve in the Army- and he was a Berufssoldat (live time professional), so not drafted in the Army due to the outbreak of the war 1914. I can trace fieldletters back to the year 1912 when he wrote them to his then girl friend (my Grandmother) from East Prussian (Posen) training grounds. Unfortunately his Wehrpass/Militaerpass/Soldbuch is not existant for shedding light into the medal thingy!!! (Otherwise I had it posted in this thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 20 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 20 September , 2007 1).... 2) The ribbon bar most likely is from Grandmother who just put it in the purse of her deceased husband: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcCulloch Posted 21 September , 2007 Share Posted 21 September , 2007 Yeah- I knew he was a professional NCO by the ( really well coloured) wedding photo. I doubt however, your Granddad was in the army in 1897. Enlistments for those below age 18 were very,very few and not encouraged. In addition, if your Granddad had been in from 1897-1914, he would have had an additional Long service CROSS (see below) for 15 years service and maybe a general service merit medal as well. This medal would have been awarded and worn-even in the field. Also, the Centennial medal is the same size (diameter/width) as an iron cross. The medal shown above is smaller-merely @ 80% of the size of the cross-but the same size as a LS medal. The career NCOs in the German infantry were prized men, since they did 85% of the actual work (management/leading etc.). Given his picture with the EK2 and the wound, I reckon there's no way that's not a LS medal. Also, one was not made a Officer Stellvetreter simply because one had a Gymnasium education. These men were tried, trusted and very, very capable-the cream of the crop of the enlisted ranks. In the field they also had almost all of the benefits of officer status as well. Officer rank had enormous social and political status in Wilhelmenian Germany (esp. in Prussia) and at home he'd still have been 'enlisted', although enormously respected by the local "Vons" on the nearby Junker estate. In your ancestor's case they may have given him this rank as a reward for gallantry-which did happen. But, he was also a very capable man. In the British army he'd have been an RSM. In the American he'd have been a Lt. and maybe a Captain in a National Guard unit. Oh-and by the pictures of your dad, he was no Luftwaffe slouch either! Please, for the sake of history interview him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 21 September , 2007 Share Posted 21 September , 2007 Long Service Medal V Centenar Medal - my question would be regarding the colour of the ribbon. I appreciate it is a black and white picture, but the medal ribbon seems much lighter than I would expect a dark blue ribbon to appear? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 21 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 21 September , 2007 True observation Ian; also the form of the top portion matches the Centenar. So right now I still stick with it but will be open for further underlying evidence. I will also contact the SME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcCulloch Posted 22 September , 2007 Share Posted 22 September , 2007 Pre 1930s photography often reverses colour. Centennial medals often appear to have dark ribbons and dark blue appears lighter grey. This is referred to as the infamous 'spectrum shift'. There are world class experts out there who would LOVE to see this thread! With your permission I shall add a link to the Gmic.co.uk forum and let them discuss this. I'll bet you a penny (1914) that they agree with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcCulloch Posted 22 September , 2007 Share Posted 22 September , 2007 By the way-what is a "SME"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 22 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 22 September , 2007 Subject Matter Expert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 23 September , 2007 Share Posted 23 September , 2007 Pre 1930s photography often reverses colour. Centennial medals often appear to have dark ribbons and dark blue appears lighter grey. This is referred to as the infamous 'spectrum shift'. There are world class experts out there who would LOVE to see this thread! With your permission I shall add a link to the Gmic.co.uk forum and let them discuss this. I'll bet you a penny (1914) that they agree with me. Then their uniforms are pale yellow and the epaulettes/cuffs dark yellow? Only joking! I understand what you mean. I remember the 1950's/60's TV soap 'Emergency, Ward 10' - it was said that (in those B+W TV days) that the white hospital sheets were actually light blue, but appeared clean/white due to the filming process (B+W TV cameras). Await further developments (no pun intended!) as it seems I might need to get my colouring brush out again... Ian Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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