This is the secret of Granddads trunk

22 October , 2010

Egbert

I've spent hours today reading this thread, and it is a wonderful insight to, not only your grandfather's experience, but for any soldier of WW1.

My grandfather survived the war, but two of his brothers didn't. He died in the early 70's, so I never got the chance to find out about his war, and I have no mementos or keepsakes, not even photos of him from that time, so, you are truly fortunate to have your trunk of treasures.

Thanks for posting.

Paul

23 October , 2010

Egbert.

Did we ever discover any more about the watch in post 58 marked Albrecht Lenz Pyritz. Pyritz was in Prussia (now Poland) but who was Albrecht Lenz? Presumaby the jewwller/watchmaker who sold the watch?

Neil

24 October , 2010

Thanks Davis and Paul!

Neil, it is indeed the merchant located in Pyritz, Am Markt

2 December , 2010

Egbert,

This needs to be a book.

3 February , 2011

Egbert

You have let so many join in a tremendously moving path of discovery with great generosity.... thank you so much.

It is very reflective how the human story of your grandfather transcends past national differences.

Hopefully somewhere your grandfather is enjoying a good cigar, I am sure that he is very proud of his family still!!!

Best wishes

Andy

4 February , 2011

Egbert,

This needs to be a book.

It is a truly inspirational thread and I wholeheartedly agree.

It still moves me deeply reading bits of this. Hope all is well Egbert.

Susan

17 February , 2011

QUOTE (marina @ Nov 17 2005, 06:35 PM)Why is that picture in the trunk and not hanging on the wall?

Marina

it happened to jump out of the trunk and who says it is not hanging at the wall today?=

Wonderful thread has been a pleasure to read so far very moving stuff indeed.

Rich

17 February , 2011

Only just found this thread - how poignant!

Mike

30 March , 2011

Bumping this excellent thread, so that new members can enjoy

Congratulations to Egbert on his retirement (for those who might miss the celebration in Skindles)

Caryl

30 May , 2011

This thread has re-ignited my curiosity on The Great War. It has been a very emotional reading!

Karen

13 August , 2011

Hi All

I asked Egbert if I could include his Grandfather's story on my Wartime Website and he kindly agreed. For the last two weeks we have been working together on the webpage.

Here is the result

http://liverpoolremembrance.weebly.com/gottfried-sandrock.html

The first time I read this story I shed a tear. I did again while working on it.

Thank you again Egbert for sharing Gottfried with us all.

Ant

14 August , 2011

Brilliant addition to the story Ant. It is wonderful to see the whole story in a united way.

Well done to you both for the web page and another huge thank you to Egbert for revealing his story in the first place.

Jonathan

14 August , 2011

Egbert and andalucia, what a fantastic tribute and continual reminder that both sides suffered so much.

22 August , 2011

Oh I am so pleased to see this Tony. It is good to see the whole story in one place and on your wonderful site. This has always been one of my favourite threads. I remember being enthralled by it all when Egbert slowly revealed the contents of his grandfather's trunk

Good work both of you

23 August , 2011

Thank you for sharing.

8 January , 2012

Grandfather is now documented on the The War Graves Photographic Project (in association with the CWGC)

8 January , 2012

I read this thread but it never occured to me to match up the names.......

From July 2010:

10 January , 2012

Egbert

Thank you very much for telling this fascinating and deeply moving story.

You may be interested to know that my maternal grandfather was nearby, when your grandfather was killed.

His name was Ernest Wright and he volunteered at the outbreak of war. He was a corporal in the 12th Gloucesters, part of the 95th Brigade.

The 12th Gloucesters held the British Front Line from 22nd April 1918 opposite two farms, Le Vertbois and Gloucester/Rafia Farm.

These farms are about 300 yards south-east of the Nieppe Forest's edge and some 500 yards west-south-west of the field in which your grandfather was killed.

The farms were to be attacked by the British on the evening of 25th April so that a new line could be occupied about 250 yards to the east of them. The 1st Bedfords on the

left would also attack, so that the line remained in conformity.

The attack was a success, capturing a mile of line to an average depth of 500 yards. My Grandfather's company, "A" Company, bore the brunt of the fighting.

The 12th Battalion suffered about 23 killed and 31 wounded in the operation and withdrew 1000 yards to the support line for 6 days. The Battalion had been in or about the

Forest since 12th April and had already suffered serious losses in a German attack on the 14th and to shellfire.

Thus my grandfather was in the support lines in the Forest on 1st May, when Gottfried Sandrock died.

The new positions of the British after the attack appear to be within 200-300 metres of the field where your grandfather died.

Ernest Wright died in 1970 aged 78, a retired accountant. He was mild-mannered and rather unwarlike, with a deep love for his family, Shakespeare, Pepys, Shaw, cricket

and his vegetable garden. That he survived the War unscathed he attributed entirely to luck.

If it is allowable, I should be honoured to place a poppy on Gottfried Sandrock's grave when I visit the Western Front, tracing my grandfather's footsteps, later this year.

Bill

10 January , 2012

Bill, your post is a fascinating new discovery and great information for me! If you have any new or deeper information about the order of the battle as of 1 May 1918, please let me know. You have probably studied my PP- Order of Battle attachment here in this thread already- that's what I figured out. Any comments are much appreciated to include more information on the Vert Bois fighting as I thought the 1Bn DCLI were holding this position. My GF could have very likely be involved in the raid on Vert Bois ferme:

Here is a summary from the actions around Vert Bois from German IR 49 regimental history:

IR 49 took position between Les Lauriers and roughly Vert Bois on April 22nd. They rotated with IR 93 and 72.

25 April: Brits attack left wing at Vert Bois and forced 6./49 to fall back

26 April: I. and II./49 loose forward line. III./49 with support of one Btl of IR 14 counterattacked and regained all lost ground to include parts of Vert Bois.

27 April: A raid against Vert Bois (Codeword "Helene") with parts of Granddads IR 49 in combination with IR 14 was successful. Also a raid against a farm 200m southeast of Les Lauriers was successful. Commander of raid "Helene" against Vert Bois was Lt. d.R. Freyer

28 April: IR 49 was shifted towards the right sector roughly in front of Les Lauriers

Granddad was at that time in 4.Kompanie, I.Battalion/IR49 so Ernest Wright and my GF were both in the same fields around Vert Bois/ Rafia ferme .

Picture from Vert Bois ferme as it looks today:

10 January , 2012

Found Rafia ferme -even closer to Grandfathers platoon position than the Vert Bois ferme (-raid). Do you have an exact grid reference where Gloucesters bordered DCLI? Any further information is much appreciated as I have never come across a fate from the Brit side so very close to GF's -last whereabout

10 January , 2012

Egbert

The following extracts concern the British attack on the night of the 25th April and the German attack/raid early in the morning of 27th April. They are taken online from the War Diary of the 1st Bedfords; the diary for the 12th Gloucesters is not accessible online as far as I know.

1st East Surreys were on the right of 12th Gloucesters, the border being about 500 yards south-west of Le Vert Bois Farm. The 1st Bedfords were on the left, the border being just south of the track running north-west from Rafia Farm on your map.

My grandfather's company, "A", appears to have had as its jumping-off point a line, running north-south, in the middle of no man's land, about 250 yards west-south-west of Le Vert Bois Farm.

The 1st DCLI and 1st Devons were also in the 95th Brigade (with 12th Gloucesters and 1st East Surreys) and were presumably in reserve/support on 25th April. Exactly which units held the British line at Le Vert Bois and Rafia Farm on 1st May I do not know, but will endeavor to find out. You may well be correct in thinking it was the 1st DCLI.

The extracts refer several times to "Bedford Farm". I am not sure where this is on your map and wonder if it is the farm by the field where your grandfather was killed?

I hope this helps in building a picture of the course of events around Le Vert Bois, as seen from the British side.

NB:The smiley thing isn't mine - I don't use them.

Bill

25 Apr 1918 "A" Coy, supported by two platoons of "B" Coy took all objectives as detailed in O.O. 139 Zero hour 9.30 p.m. All objectives reported taken 10.35 p.m. See App.8. Capt.F.[Frederick] HAGUE wounded 1 O.R. killed 20 O.R. wounded. Lt.A.H.O.[Alexander Herbert Oliver] RIDDELL & E.J.F.TRAILER, 2nd Lt F.L. [Frederick Lee] RAY joined Battn. [Comment; 2/Lt RIDDELL wounded 27^th September & 2/Lt RAY KIA 16^th May] 26 Apr 1918 Situation quiet. 3 O.R's wounded.

27 Apr 1918 - camp in Nieppe Forest Enemy attacked Right Coy at about 4.30 a.m. [see appendix 9]. A/Capt W.W.WHITE wounded. 2/Lt.A.E.[Ambrose Ethelstone] PEEL Killed, 7 O.R's killed 11 wounded. Battn. was relieved by 3 Coys K.O.S.B.'s and 1 Coy D.C.L.I. & withdrew to camp in wood O.O. 140.

28 Apr 1918 As above.

29-30 Apr 1918 As above. battn. supplied working party of 400 men to work on Divisional line, wiring and improving breastworks.

WAR DIARY FOR MAY 1918

1 May 1918 - Camp in Nieppe Forest, H.Q. at l'Epinette Battn. in camp in NIEPPE FOREST Head Quarters at L'EPPINETTE [sic].

OPERATION ORDER No.139 1st. Battalion Bedfordshire Regiment. Map Ref. 36.a.N.E. 1/10,000. April 25th. 1918.

1. "A" Coy. and one platoon of "B" Coy. will advance its line from LES LAURIERS to a line running from K.21.a.05.15. to K.21.a.50.95. Road, taking in farm about K.21.a.4.6. (BEDFORD FARM) The Gloucester Regt. will conform with a similar movement on our right as far as VERTBOIS.

2. ARTILLERY will form a creeping barrage from K.20.b.7.6. to K.21.a.40.95. rate of advance will be 1 minutes for first 300 yards. The Barrage will stop on line of new enemy trench from about K.20.b.1.8. to K.21.c.1.9. One Newton will fire on certain targets. Four light Trench Mortars will give a hurricane bombardment from ZERO to ZERO plus 1 minutes playing on an area around BEDFORD FARM. They will then lift and play for half an hour round building and orchard on Road around K.21.a. and c. They will then stand to for S.O.S.

3. MACHINE GUNS (a) two guns will fire from Zero onwards while the Artillery barrage lasts from K.15.d.4.5. on a line through K.21.a.60.05. Rate of Fire, - Intense for ten minutes, and harassing rate until Artillery barrage ceases.

( One M.G. will fire from K.20.b.5.8. straight down the Railway from Zero to Zero plus 10.

4. ASSEMBLY. "A" Coy. will be assembles [sic] ready for the attack at 15 minutes before zero, between Eastern edge of Chateau grounds and MERVILLE - LA MOTTE Road at K.15.c.15.15 as marked out with O.C. "A" Coy. on "X" night. One platoon of "B" Coy, commanded by 2/Lieut. F.H.Fox will form up in rear of first wave of "A" Coy. and be in reserve. As soon as troops have moved forward, one platoon of "B" Coy. under 2/Lieut A.E.Peel, will occupy old front line from Railway K.20.b.8.5. to Road K.15.c.80.05. O.C. "C" Coy. will extend his right and occupy the line as far as the Road at K.15.c.80.05. vacated by "A" Coy.

5. ATTACK. At Zero, "A" Coy. will move forward to the attack, No.2 platoon leading, followed by No.1 and No.3 platoons in two lines, 50 yards in rear. One platoon of "B" Coy. under 2/Lieut. F.H.Fox will advance 100 yards in rear of "A" Coy. and must be ready to re-inforce the attack, at any moment or assist in mopping up. No.2 platoon of "A" Coy. will advance with patrols on flanks of enclosure. N.B. Barrage must be closely followed by these patrols.

6. CONSOLIDATION. The main line of resistance will be along the hedge running from K.21.a.3.5. to K.21.a.5.7. Two posts will also be dug about K.21.a.2.5. and K.21.a.05.15,to join up Railway. Two posts will also be dug towards the MERVILLE Road to join up with the post at K.15.c.80.05. Forward group will be pushed forward to cover the consolidation. These will be withdrawn at dawn. The platoon of "B" Coy. will dig an immediate support approximately about 100 yards in rear of "A" Coy. in the enclosure.

7. EQUIPMENT. (i) Packs will be dumped in present positions. (ii) Fighting kit with two bandoliers of S.A.A. will be worn - haversacks containing rations on back. (iii) Every man will carry a pick or shovel - 10 shovels to one pick. (iv) One bomb and one rifle grenade per man will be carried. (v) Rations for the 26th. inst. and emergency rations will be carried. (vi) Waterbottles to be full. (vii) One round of white V.P.A. per man will be carried, and three sets of S.O.S. Signals per platoon, (GREEN 1") (viii) Every Officer will carry two rounds of RED V.P.A. 1". N.B. O.C. Coy. will send up one RED Rocket on objective being gained.

8. COMMUNICATIONS. (i) Signalling Officer will arrange for telephone and lamp to go forward with "A" Coy.

9.Forward Battalion Headquarters will be established at LES LAURIERS at 3 p.m. 25th.April, where all reports will be sent. If a barrage is heavy, on LES LAURIERS, reports can be sent via "C" Coy's. H.Q.

10. Zero hour will be about 9 p.m. 25th. inst. exact hour will be notified later.

11. Watches will be synchronised by Runner about 4 p.m. and before 7 p.m.

12. MEDICAL. Dressing Station will remain at same place where walking wounded should proceed. There will be a bearer squad at LES LAURELIERS [sic] to deal with stretcher cases.

13. R.S.M. will report to Adjutant to receive instructions re stragglers post.

14. Prisoners to be sent direct to old Battalion Headquarters. Support platoon of "B" Coy. will provide escort. On no account are men of "A" Coy to be sent back with prisoners.

To PILLOW. Report on attack and taking of enclosure at K.21.a. Reference attached sketch map [not attached].

1. ASSEMBLY. "A" Coy. 1st. Bedf. Regt. and one platoon of "B" Coy. assembled for the attack at 9.15 p.m. according to plan. The barrage opened to time, some guns were firing short - 18 pounder shrapnel. About 12 casualties were caused by this including O.C. "A" Coy. (Capt.F.Hague) who however went forward with his Coy.

2. THE ATTACK, was carried out according to plan. Two sections of the support platoon "B" Coy. had to be sent forward to the right platoon to replace casualties. This right platoon suffered more heavily than the remainder of the Coy. Two unwounded prisoners and one wounded prisoner were brought in, also one M.G. The RED Rocket (signal for gaining objective) was first seen at 9.38 p.m. and again at 9.58 p.m. At 10.35 p.m. message was received by Runner from O.C. "A" Coy. saying all objectives had been taken. At 11 p.m. Capt. F.Hague reported that he had been all round his line and that he was in touch with the Gloucester Regt. on his right, and "C" Coy. 1st. Bedf. R. on his left. He then came to Battalion H.Q. at LES LAURIERS, where it was discovered that he had a bad wound in the thigh. He was sent down to the Dressing Station at 11.30 p.m. Telephonic communication was obtained with Front line at 11 p.m. 3. CONSOLIDATION. "A" Coy. are holding the line of the objective as laid down in Brigade O.O. and have dug in, in accordance with attached sketch map. At 10.15 p.m. 2 Bde. M.G's were sent up, and took up positions in right and left corners of wood as indicated. The house at K.21.a.4.5. has been cleared and is being held at night. This house is about 50 yards in front of (i.e. S.E.) of bottom right hand corner of enclosure. The line is at present held as per attached sketch map. Our estimated casualties are 25 wounded including Capt. F.Hague, and killed at present unknown, though believed not heavy. - probably about 15. The front line has been visited, and the trenches are well sited. One M.G. has been captured. Time - 1.30 a.m. April 26th. 1918.

OPERATION ORDER No.140 1st. Battalion Bedfordshire Regiment. Map Ref.36.a. N.E. 1/20,000. April 26th. 1918

1. Battalion will be relieved on the night of the 26th/27th. as under: - Right Coy. "A". From K.21.a.15.05. to Road K.21.a.80.90. exclusive, to be relieved by a Coy. of the D.C.L.I. Centre Coy. "C". From Road K.21.a.80.90. inclusive to Canal at K.15.d.2.8. by a Coy. of the K.O.S.B. "D" Coy. Left Coy. "D" Coy. From Canal to corner of enclosure K.15.b.1.9. by a Coy. of the K.O.S.B. "B" Coy. Support Coy. "B". at K.15.c. central will be relieved by a Coy. of the K.O.S.B. ("A" Coy.) 2/Lieut. V.E.Farr will hand over all these trenches to this Coy. of K.O.S.B. They will not relieve the two platoons of "B" Coy. in Front of LES LAURIES [sic].

2. RECONNAISANCE. One Officer per Coy. and one N.C.O. per platoon of D.C.L.I. and K.O.S.B. will report at Battalion Headquarters at 8.30 p.m. whence they will be guided to their respective Coy Fronts, and stay there the night 26/27th.

3. GUIDES. on scale of One O.R. per platoon, and one O.R. for H.Q. (Coy) will meet relieving Units at Bn. H.Q. (Faggot Stack) at 8.45 p.m. on the 27th. inst. Guides will report to the Intelligence Officer. They will each be in possession of a slip of paper shewing which platoon and Coy. of relieving Unit they are to guide. Two guides from 2/Lieut. Farr's platoon "B" Coy. will be sufficient for support Coy.

4. ALL WORK in progress and proposed, all trench stores, S.O.S. rockets, V.P.A., etc. will be handed over, also tools. The two extra bandoliers per man will be collected in platoon or section dumps and kept dry and handed over. Lists of all trench stores etc., to be handed over will be sent to Battalion Headquarters by daybreak 27/4/18 by runner.

5. The greatest care must be taken in handing over forward posts, so that no ground is lost.

6. On completion of relief Coy's. will withdraw by complete platoons to bivouacs at J.20.b. Q.M. will arrange for one guide per platoon and one for Coy. H.Q., and two for Battalion Headquarters to be at Battalion Headquarters by 10.30 p.m. to guide Coy's. back to bivouacs.

7. T.O. will arrange for limbers to collect spare Lewis Gun Magazines at Bn. H.Q. also Lewis Guns and magazines of Coy's. Sgt. Faulder will supervise loading.

8. RELIEF COMPLETE will be reported by wire using following code message: - "BARBEDWIRE". O.C. Coy's. will also report at Bn. H.Q. on their way out.

[Headq]uarters, 15th. Infantry Brigade

The enemy attacked our right coy. this morning at about [tear in document] a.m. behind a heavy barrage. About 200 enemy advanced to within [tear in document] yards under cover of their barrage and the mist. Our M.G., L.G. and [tear in document] fire broke up the attack. The S.O.S. was not sent up on our front. It is reported that we are still in touch with the 12th. [Glouc]ester Regt. The Coy. has had about 15 casualties, caused by shell fire. [tear in document] W.W.White, Commanding this Coy. front line has been wounded. [Ti]me - 7.48 a.m. [27]/4/18.

To PILLOW. The following is a continuation of report about the enemy counter attack in the early morning of the 27th. April 1918: -

The barrage was put down chiefly on our part of the line, running through enclosure and going up thence to the 12th. Gloucesters. There is no doubt that the enemy suffered considerable casualties. Opposite the centre of our line, some of the enemy were seen to throw away their arms and equipment, and turn tail. Our Lewis Gun on the right, which was at K.21.a.05.15, was enabled to enfilade the attack, and greatly assisted. Touch was maintained during the action with the 12th. Gloucesters. Our patrols which were out on the night of the 27th. to cover the relief, report finding number of enemy dead. 28/4/18.

11 January , 2012

Bill, this is a most interesting account and sheds more light about what happened with Grandfather 6 days before he was kia. This morning I compiled the Bedford diary (as of 25 April), a field letter written 26 April, maps and an excerpt of war diary IR 49. All compiled information is attached:

Edited: I have to post it in several different parts because the original file is too big to post.

Part I

from WAR DIARY 1st BEDFORDSHIRE

OPERATION ORDER No.139 1st. Battalion Bedfordshire Regiment. Map Ref. 36.a.N.E. 1/10,000. April 25th. 1918.

1. "A" Coy. and one platoon of "B" Coy. will advance its line from LES LAURIERS to a line running from K.21.a.05.15. to K.21.a.50.95. Road, taking in farm about K.21.a.4.6. (BEDFORD FARM) The Gloucester Regt. will conform with a similar movement on our right as far as VERTBOIS.

11 January , 2012

Part II

2. ARTILLERY will form a creeping barrage from K.20.b.7.6. to K.21.a.40.95. rate of advance will be 1 minutes for first 300 yards. The Barrage will stop on line of new enemy trench from about K.20.b.1.8. to K.21.c.1.9. One Newton will fire on certain targets. Four light Trench Mortars will give a hurricane bombardment from ZERO to ZERO plus 1 minutes playing on an area around BEDFORD FARM. They will then lift and play for half an hour round building and orchard on Road around K.21.a. and c.(Grandfather’s farm) They will then stand to for S.O.S.

3. MACHINE GUNS (a) two guns will fire from Zero onwards while the Artillery barrage lasts from K.15.d.4.5. on a line through K.21.a.60.05.(this is exactly Gottfried Sandrock position) Rate of Fire, - Intense for ten minutes, and harassing rate until Artillery barrage ceases.

One M.G. will fire from K.20.b.5.8. straight down the Railway from Zero to Zero plus 10.

Two M.G's. at about K.14.d.100.20 will be in readiness to move forward to BEDFORD FARM ant [sic] time after Zero.

4. ASSEMBLY. "A" Coy. will be assembles [sic] ready for the attack at 15 minutes before zero, between Eastern edge of Chateau grounds and MERVILLE - LA MOTTE Road at K.15.c.15.15 as marked out with O.C. "A" Coy. on "X" night. One platoon of "B" Coy, commanded by 2/Lieut. F.H.Fox will form up in rear of first wave of "A" Coy. and be in reserve. As soon as troops have moved forward, one platoon of "B" Coy. under 2/Lieut A.E.Peel, will occupy old front line from Railway K.20.b.8.5. to Road K.15.c.80.05. O.C. "C" Coy. will extend his right and occupy the line as far as the Road at K.15.c.80.05. vacated by "A" Coy.

5. ATTACK. At Zero, "A" Coy. will move forward to the attack, No.2 platoon leading, followed by No.1 and No.3 platoons in two lines, 50 yards in rear. One platoon of "B" Coy. under 2/Lieut. F.H.Fox will advance 100 yards in rear of "A" Coy. and must be ready to re-inforce the attack, at any moment or assist in mopping up. No.2 platoon of "A" Coy. will advance with patrols on flanks of enclosure. N.B. Barrage must be closely followed by these patrols.

6. CONSOLIDATION. The main line of resistance will be along the hedge running from K.21.a.3.5. to K.21.a.5.7. (marked line in Yellow and which is exactly Grandfather’s area of responsibility, some 250m in front of his platoon HQ) Two posts will also be dug about K.21.a.2.5. and K.21.a.05.15,to join up Railway. Two posts will also be dug towards the MERVILLE Road to join up with the post at K.15.c.80.05. Forward group will be pushed forward to cover the consolidation. These will be withdrawn at dawn. The platoon of "B" Coy. will dig an immediate support approximately about 100 yards in rear of "A" Coy. in the enclosure.

11 January , 2012

Part III