Bayonets of Austro-Ugrian Empire

[sawdoc34]

[sawdoc34]

No makers mark on this one ....

[Rafal1971]

Andy,

 

In one of the photos presented above.

Can the marking of the cross prove that these are bayonets for Portugal?

 

Best Rafal

[trajan]

12 hours ago, sawdoc34 said:

Any ideas on this one?

Only maker on ricasso & 3532 on crossguard

 

 

 

12 hours ago, AndyBsk said:

-3532 could be export piece, i would measure the MRD same as the height of barell ring over blade and handle, this could be in reality a Mannlicher Schoenauer M1903 bayonet. What is stamped on hook of scabbard?

Looks very much like the Greek Y 1903, as Andy says. There should be a St/George and dragon on the pommel. All my Greek Y1903's are put away so can't check just yet. All of mine have a Greek letter at the end of the number, which this one lacks, so perhaps this is from first lot of service issue bayonets, later ones having a letter added, ranging from 'alpha' onwards.

Julian

 

[trajan]

10 hours ago, Rafal1971 said:

Andy,

 

In one of the photos presented above.

Can the marking of the cross prove that these are bayonets for Portugal?

 

Best Rafal

That looks like the Greek cross mark - the cross-marked scabbards of these Y1903's are not easy to find in my experience. I only have one for about 7-9 examples, the other sabbards all being OEWG but not cross-marked. 

Julian

[trajan]

For Greek Y1903's, try this thread - https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/209495-greek-wwi-bayonets-the-y-1903/

It was replaced for service use by the longer Greek Y1914. While these Y1903's in an unaltered state are pretty rare they turn up every so often in Turkey, left over from the Turkish War of Independence.

Julian

[trajan]

11 hours ago, sawdoc34 said:

Ahhh!!!! A nice Ottoman-marked one! Have to check Otto's catalogue on these...

Julian

[AndyBsk]

I assume the presented bayonets should be numbered on side, or by photos, as these are already little confusing by so large numbers.

-The Bulgarian rework of E.Busch has on it a reworked greek M03 scabbard as mentioned already by Julian, Cross in circle

-1723 serialed NCO M95 has arabic digits, on hook of scabbard and pommel, it could be it was partly used by Turks, or delivered to other country. Its nice piece, evidently no austrian proofs there.

-4121 marked wout maker stamp Stutzen M95 could be low number maker from WW1 period, the blade is sharpened, the maker could be too a Budapest, frog is bulgarian

Edited 5 January , 2023 by AndyBsk

[trajan]

18 hours ago, sawdoc34 said:

 

Only maker on ricasso & 3532 on crossguard

 

 

 

Sawdoc, me old mate, you will have to some shifting around - get that Greek scabbard onto this one 

[AndyBsk]

Question is what for scabbard is on this 3532 sn piece, as i personally doubt this was delivered to Greeks?, there is no letter suffix, the piece looks like never used, same as the presented greek scabbard is a heavy refurbish done by Bulgaria post 1945.

[Rafal1971]

I meant the Portuguese symbol "Order of Christ".

My question stems from the search for bayonets for the M34 submachine gun.

I know, I saw ... The Portuguese modified the M 1904 to Sholoturna (about 5000 pieces).

I'm curious how the Austrian or German MP34 bayonet looked like. Did it stand out with anything - markings, oxidation, numbers, construction?

And also produced Sholoturn for the Croatian Ustaše.

Has a bayonet lug like the Mauser and not like the Manlicher?

 

I know it goes beyond GWF in time....

 

 

 

[trajan]

32 minutes ago, AndyBsk said:

Question is what for scabbard is on this 3532 sn piece, as i personally doubt this was delivered to Greeks?, there is no letter suffix, the piece looks like never used, same as the presented greek scabbard is a heavy refurbish done by Bulgaria post 1945.

I am thinking that this one and the other Y 1903's were serialled as with the German WW2 bayonets, so the first 9999 had no letter, the next lot, 9999 had the letter Α = 'alpha', then Β = 'beta'; then Γ = 'gamma', etc...

No problem with the scabbard being refurbished. The Bulgarians apparently got lots of these Y1903's after one of the Balkan Wars (if I remember rightly), the bayonets having their crossguards changed to Bulgarian size, which is why most Greek Y1903's on the European market have been changed from their original form,

Julian 

[AndyBsk]

Austrians used normal M95 bayonet on MP34.

To Julian -No austrians, in majority they didnt start with no letter range, visible by Chile or Mexican contracts. Started with A range.

Edited 5 January , 2023 by AndyBsk

[trajan]

1 hour ago, AndyBsk said:

Austrain used normal M95 bayonet on MP34.

To Julian -No austrians in majority didnt start with no letter range, visible by Chile or Mexican contracts. Started with A range.

No, this would be for the Greek Y1903's - the Y 1914's also. 

Julian 

[sawdoc34]

Thanks Andy & Julian, 

Looks like you were correct lads👍🙂

& only marking on frog stud is maker OEWG

[AndyBsk]

I believe the scabbard is correct for export, the bayonet mostly Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 was probably never exported or was  used in some other country as by greeks.

Edited 5 January , 2023 by AndyBsk

[trajan]

Yes, OEWG mark alone, without Greek Cross, would be for non-Greek Y1903 scabbards - agree with you there. That said, some of my Y1903's - if I remember correctly - came with scabbards with OEWG marks only.

BUT we are going off-topic from your thread  Andy, on KuK bayonets, so I suggest we should add Sawdocs example of a Y 1903 and comments on this to my Greek Y1903 thread! see - https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/209495-greek-wwi-bayonets-the-y-1903/

G'night all - exam grading to do....

 

 

[sawdoc34]

17 hours ago, trajan said:

Yes, OEWG mark alone, without Greek Cross, would be for non-Greek Y1903 scabbards - agree with you there. That said, some of my Y1903's - if I remember correctly - came with scabbards with OEWG marks only.

BUT we are going off-topic from your thread  Andy, on KuK bayonets, so I suggest we should add Sawdocs example of a Y 1903 and comments on this to my Greek Y1903 thread! see - https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/209495-greek-wwi-bayonets-the-y-1903/

G'night all - exam grading to do....

 

 

Ok Julian, will put pics of the 1903 & greek marked scabbard on your post mate👍🙂

[sawdoc34]

Last one (unless I come across anymore when looking for Bulgarian with leather bound scabbard), nothing special about it just bog standard austrian issued OEWG with remains of markings to pommel end but low number on crossguard

[sawdoc34]

Many thanks to Andy & Julian for their help with these👍..... would never have noticed the 1903 & Greek marked scabbard otherwise😉🙂.

Oh, one last thing ....can I post pics of these & pionersabels on this post or is there another for fighting knives?

[AndyBsk]

You could provide the pioniersabres here or start a new thread, the Sturmmesser are nice, visible any marking of makers?

The last M95 derusted do You have in wrong position to read, should be upside down, there is possible 1x R/??39 also a austrian Infantry Regiment probably, but unknown as the exact number is not readable. This low number on crossguard is standard by rifle M95 bayonets.

Edited 6 January , 2023 by AndyBsk

[sawdoc34]

14 minutes ago, AndyBsk said:

You could provide the pioniersabres here or start a new thread, the Sturmmesser are nice, visible any marking of makers?

The last M95 derusted do You have in wrong position to read, should be upside down, there is possible 1x R/??39 also a austrian Infantry Regiment probably, but unknown as the exact number is not readable. This low number on crossguard is standard by rifle M95 bayonets.

 

[sawdoc34]

Austrian

Hungarian

[sawdoc34]

Well used Austrian

[AndyBsk]

S maker is unknown unfortunally the knife was heavily used postwar and are more time resharpened.

R could be Resicka production, the scabbard could have a V&N stamp.

The middle one was made in slovakian teritorry by Hugo Komporday Štós which is a village well known for knife making in East Slovakia. In 1918 part of Austro Ugrian Empire.