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Remembered Today:

Imperial German Bayonet’s from my Collection


Steve1871
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Final dress piece

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Most times, bayonets are shown by themselves, I thought it would be good to show with the rifles as well. Actual barrex cleaning rods in center of pic, very rare

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Edited by Steve1871
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The next group I would like to post are the 71/84. And 84/98

 

    The 71/84 bayonets were for the 71/84 rifle, the last black powder Rifle used by Germany. . When the Gew 88 commission rifle came out, one of the adaptions when designing this rifle was creating the same Bayonet lug/ adapting size and position to be able to fit/use the existing Bayonets of the S71/84. Many were practically new condition. The whole S71 Family had the same fit.

As we all know on this forum, Germany was ill prepared for war at the start. Hence  all the Ersatz bayonets. Employed till enough new pattern bayonets, S98 quill/pipe back, S98/05. Could be made

 

The 71/84 bayonet, together with the Gew.88 and  the scarce 71/84 rifle ( German Navy used a short time both the 71/84 rifle with it’s bayonet in 1914 at least,) 

 

The 71/84 was unique for the German military in that it’s fuller design was actually flat on the inside/ bottom  and squared off at the top of the runnel/ fuller but on the bottom of fuller, simply curved normally back out like a normal fuller.. Spain and 2 or 3 other countries also adopted the 71/84. The Spanish calling theirs the M93 bayonet.

 

The 71/84 was also produced with saw backed versions for a combination weapon, to saw/ cut branches and such for camouflage for artillery and machine gun nest. Only about 6 percent were saw backed.

 

When the  new version, the 84/98 was produced. It was the same bayonet, 71/84 with a new cross guard without the muzzle ring. These are easy to tell, as being 71/84’s, they still have the curved “ Humped” pommel, handle/ grips. A small number of 71/84 bayonets simply had their muzzle rings removed. Several variations are known, and photos in various German bayonet books. I have no idea how many were done, since more than one variation, to me, it would seem to be from armorers in the field, just my guess. These are rare, and a saw backed, ring removed would be even more so.

 

The next step in this new family of bayonets would be the 84/98nA, As far as I see it, it is a new bayonet. It has the same length I think but has a normal rounded fuller, curving in and back out. The Tang was strait backed. During early production, only part of first year I think. These were made without a flash guard. Since the muzzle flash/ blast was found to slowly burn up the wooden grips, flash guards were soon added. These 84/98nA also had the 6 percent saw backed variant, but I believe when the order came down in 1917 to remove the “saw” teeth, no more new saw backed versions were produced. 

Hope you will enjoy

 

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Bayonet #24

3-5-21. Friday

 

71/84. Matching.   22.R.9.32 

22nd Infantry Regiment, 9th company. Weapon 32

Spine. Crown W 87 for 1887

Mfg. Alex Coppen Solingen 

 

blade is exelent, no sharpening , rust or patina. Wood is very good, a slight golden tinge in sun light, pommel cleanly double stamped, the leather body on scabbard has some denting but the set overall is in really good shape for a matching set for 133 years old. Hope you like

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Bayonet #25.   
3-12-21 Friday

 

S.71/84.    Matching

7.T.S.1.47.

Am not sure about T.S., think may be a Telegraph unit? I am sure the experts out there will help. Can not tell the old unit dimpled/marked out.

Maker. Weyersberg  and Kirschbaum & Co

Dated 87

Blade is nice and bright, just one small spot on spine where a tiny amount of pitting was cleaned whenever,

Scabbard in good shape, leather a little dent but stitches intact,Small amount of glueI think, guessing the staple may have broken off on one end. A previous owner try fix. I had no time.  Chape and final are an even, thin patina and pommel is matching patina. The Cross Guard is brighter with no pitting

Grips are nice with no cracks

A nice set overall for matching bayonet

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I assume its 7.Train Battalion, Sanitaets Abteilung or Detaschement nr.1. weapon  nr.47. On scabbard was older unit outdoted. Possible 15 R?

Westfälisches Train-Bataillon Nr. 7 Das Westfälische Train-Bataillon Nr. 7 war das Train-Bataillon des VII. Armeekorps. Es unterstand dem Kommando des Trains des VII. Armeekorps, IX. und X. Armee-Korps. Friedensstandort war Münster in der preußischen Provinz Westfalen. Die Kasernen des Bataillons befanden sich zwischen der Weißenburgstraße und der heutigen Habichtshöhe im Geistviertel sowie auf dem Gelände des heutigen Südparks im Südviertel.

Edited by AndyBsk
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Cor blimey Steve! You are raking them in, all nice ones! Have you arranged your retirement yet and got a big enough house and strong rooms for all these pieces!

 

Julian

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Thanks Andy. Hope you are doing well

Thanks Julian, no hear from you in awhile, Hope you are doing good as well and that you are still teaching! Still teaching on line, or finally back to the classroom?

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Still on-line, still policing the boys, but gradually getting back ito bayonets, and trying to get hold of the Russian language Voronov, Vitalij/Voronov, Denis/Voronov, Vasili 'German Bayonets. S71/84 - kS98'...

 

Julian

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Bayonet #26

3/19/21. Friday. 
 

71/84      84.R.7.133   MATCHING SET

84th Infantry Regiment, 7th Company, weapon 138

 

Odd that the metal parts of scabbard, the chape/throat and final are . It appears a war time thing, but I do not think it was regulation?

Maker. Alex Coppel,  Solingen

Spine Crown over W and 88 date for Prussia

 

Bayonet overall, the pommel has some patina or whole bayonet would rate as exelent.Blade, guard and grips almost unused except wear on spine markings

 

Scabbard has light crease, but not bad. Seam and both staples intact. No shrinkage

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S71/84 in very good matching condition anyway the black paint on scabbard fittings could be war or postwar ,is possible the leather was blackened too.

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These ones are among my favourite bayonets alongside the GB P.1888 and Swedish M.96. They are so stylish! 

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Bayonet #27

3/27/21. Saturday

 

71/84.   Matching  ( original rematch)

Spine crown over 88 (1888)

Alex Coppel. Solingen 

 

63.R.8.4.   For 63rd Infantry Regiment. 8th Company. 4th weapon. 
An original re-match , the scabbard has it’s original unit “ X” ‘d out. Orig. unit as you can see is 22.R.7.210

 

Blade, unsharpened, has shallow groove from chape catch band ( inside throat, holds bayonet in. A common sight, not bad.

No rust

 

Scabbard is mottled on steel, leather body very good, no dents, seam and both staples intact.   133 year old matching set

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Nice matching piece, strange X out of older unit, mostly were used outdoting which is hard to say what is there, here a nice piece twice unit marked, anyway it was stored long time out of sun, as grips are light color, same as probably with strange temperatures because wood was cracking on rivets. i would oil the pommel and fittings of scabbard as there is already a light rust.

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I had this piece for about half a year, looking at it again, I just notice that it is twice, matching unit marked. The old unit is “X”’s out on both bayonet and scabbard, that unit is matching  22.R.7.210. As well as the new matching unit. I think that is RARE ( To me)

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I would await matching unit by reserialing normally, that is not extraordinary and not rare , same as both units are same area Breslau, now in Poland, VI.Army Korps, 12 Division, one is 1.Oberschlessisches Regt, the new one is 4.Oberschlessisches Regt, so equiped in same area.

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Bayonet #28

4/2/21. Friday

 

71/84. Matching ( mostly)

 same company, just the weapon/ waffle # is off by 26 numbers on the end

 

39.R.2.115 

39.R.2.141

 

Alex Coppel. Solingen

spine crown. 87

 

Blade is exelent, grips are exelent, no cracks, light wood, crisp markings on pommel. 
Scabbard very good, no dents or creases, both staples intact, odd painted letters  on final. Overall, very good plus. Hope you guys like

 

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Very nice S71/84 excellent condition, sorry is not matching, as i assume this missmatch was done by outsale the items to market probably, not by unit. But for similar condition not large problem, i believe the scabbard was painted black and by removing someone did remain a letters on lower fitting DUI? or something like this, maybe previous owner?

The unit should be Niederrheinisches Fuessilier Regiment Nr.39, area Duesseldorf, in end of war got the unit name of general Luddendorf.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niederrheinisches_Füsilier-Regiment_Nr._39

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Bayonet and scabbard is to same regiment, same company, only the Waffe # at end is off. I think change of scabbards was just simple accident in the company.  Not post war. Sell off to commercial market. The odd’s of that , same unit, would be extremely small

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Maybe yes but maybe not, personally i dont believe bayonets were similar way switched , this was a numbered complete with rifle, rifle was added in waffenmeister book to specific soldier and signed , when something lost, then soldier should pay for lost, so the soldier known what bayonet, scabbard and rifle should have. 

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Yes but in War, always in the Field, maintaince, cleaning as a group, new gear, belts and clothing, packs, soldiers would be changing things around.  There would be a much greater chance of  2 scabbards being swapped by accident, maybe a soldier broke his , grab a spare from the weapons/ equipment scavenged from the fallen after a battle. No one would ever know, but for post war, commercial market, bayonets packed by the crate, no one would care to try and match up a scabbard to the original unit as bayonet. About the same chance as willing a £1 million lottery ticket

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From the light color of grips and excellent condition of that bayonet personally believe this is a depot piece, not much used, and in war probably remained in Reserve in 1914 this bayonet had already 27 years on bucket. Any sharpening of blade?

Edited by AndyBsk
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