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Remembered Today:

Imperial German Bayonet’s from my Collection


Steve1871
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Bayonet #36

84/98mS

 

Erfurt

Crown over W. 15 date

 

I hope I am right, was told that when production of the 84/98 started, only a small number were produced without the flash guard, may be a few months? I sure someone will correct me if that is not right, been sharpened, cleaned up some and the teeth show some rust/pitting/ grime, but overall a pretty good piece. 

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I am not certain that screw heads are here on correct position, normally there are visible countersunk by bayonet in scabbard, question is too the S71/84 scabbard is proper here? was still used by early S84/98nA?, certainly was used with S84/98aA reworked from older S71/84 bayonets, unfortunally i dont have the B.Karem book about S84/98 bayonets. Ruediger wrote that with S84/98nA were used metall sheet scabbard same as with older KS98.

The metall was light cleaned, looks like a nice early piece. Metall is on some parts so polished it looks like it was used as a dress piece? 

Edited by AndyBsk
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Nice one Steve! Flashguards on these are from early summer 1915 - I need to check my files. It was because of the use of these by cavlry on Gew.98 carbines that flashguards were introduced, because of charring, etc., of the grips - shorter attachment slot left them closer to the muzzle. Production was ordered at the end of 1914, but 1915 was when they first came out for use. Issue originally was to cavalry units - from early 1915 to cavalry in the east, then to cavalry in the west. I have the exact dates somewhere. 

 

Julian

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20 minutes ago, AndyBsk said:

... unfortunally i dont have the B.Karem book about S84/98 bayonets...

 

Nobody I know has a copy and I can't even get one on Inter library loan! I wrote to him about 5 years back about this - he is aware of the need for a reissue but I have heard nothing since.  

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Is probably next year prepared for reprint of the old version with new updates.

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That would be very welcome! Thanks for the update. Fingers crossed it actually happens...

 

Andy, do you have a direct order address for the Russian book on the 71/84's?

 

Julian

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Thanks for your input there guy’s.

Julian, so I am correct in that with no flash guard, would be only in first 6 months or so, production then.

Thanks for the scan there Robert

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Julian, what is the Russian book 71/84 you speak of? I read somewhere that a Russian made, what some call, simply - Updated versions of Anthony Carter’s books

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I could ask Voronovs next days,i assume they made a copy of next Carter old book,focused on S71/84 and KS98.

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11 hours ago, Steve1871 said:

Julian, what is the Russian book 71/84 you speak of? I read somewhere that a Russian made, what some call, simply - Updated versions of Anthony Carter’s books

 

10 hours ago, AndyBsk said:

I could ask Voronovs next days,i assume they made a copy of next Carter old book,focused on S71/84 and KS98.

 

That's the one. I have seen it advertised on a German web site but for some reason could not get my order accepted. Yes, an updated Carter, but with new production lists, as in their 98/05 book. No, I can't read Russian, but their graphs and photographs are useful, and when necessary I get a student of mine to translate!

 

Julian

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Bayonet #37

84/98mS. Sawback

Erfurt

crown over 15 

unit marked. 15.U.3.158.

not sure what unit is? The majority of these 84/98 saw backs are not unit marked in my observations. Also, most simply have a crown over a good size script letter/ acceptance in place of a date/year

Blade was sharpened a little too much, but still good overall.The rest of the blade is great, teeth are exelent, grips are very good. The cross guard is very good. Not sure how to read it, top of guard had either a 6 or a 9. Anyone have any idea what that would be for??

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Same opinion 15.Ulanen Regiment, 3.Eskadron, weapon nr., bayonet in good condition in proper scabbard, what is small minus, a oversharpened blade, someone drifted it longer on sharpening stone. Used  with a KAR98AZ carbine. S84/98nAS.

Edited by AndyBsk
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Anyone know what that 6 or 9 on top center of cross guard means, I have seen guards marked like that before, just a few times

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I have seen any stamp made by refurbishment, maybe some parts were replaced in war, crossguard, flashguard?  From the countersunk, they were dissasembled as visible on wood, so most probably already later by cleaning of pommel and crossguard?

Edited by AndyBsk
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Remember, these bayonets were originally introduced for cavalry use, commissioned in December 1914, I think, and distributed early 1915. So a Uhlan markd example fits the bayonet.  This has a flashguard so is late 1915.

 

Julian

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Bayonet #38

6/11/21

84/98mSabg.  Saw removed

 

  I did not bother with the scabbard, as is a WW2 ( 1939 date), came with bayonet

People say Saw removed bayonets are scarce, to be honest, I should get more for the rarity, yet they are simply not as desirable to most bayonet collectors. That said, the 98/05 saw removed is far more common compared to the 84/98, I got this simply to fill out my collection more, and it was inexpensive. It is not a parade piece or plated, but someone cleaned it too much, looks like polish as well. I do not want to give the name, but the web site (Europe) almost every piece is cleaned too much and/ or polished.Again, was still good for rarity and collection. 

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Yes, I see, the grips do not match, I guess the left grip is original

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S84/98nASabg, looks like blade is nice, the grips could be origin, hard to say, but were probably removed when polished the handle parts, which was done postwar. Flashguard is protruding on other side of grip? no visible on photos.

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My judgement on the comparative rarity of sawback-removed is that sawbacks in any case only made up 6% or so of production, and were more likely to be 'souvenired' than anything else. That certainly seems to be the case with the unit-marked 98/05's I have recorded, as more than 6% are sawbacks.

 

Julian

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I assume 6% of sawbacks should be used only S98 long and other infantry unit bayonets, as KS98 were mainly equiped with saw, so majority were sawbacks, S98/05 started life as pioneer unit bayonet so the sawback was mostly on 30/40% on time frame 1906-14, possible the war time is lower but certainly not 6%, S84/98 sawbacks were used by Technical units, so the sawbacked version are more as 6% too, some Fly units have only sawback reported S84/98nAS. Is always depend for what unit it were destined, Kar98AZ was not so widely used as Gew98.

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Bayonet #39

6/17/21

84/98mS. Saw Back


Bonigen & Sabin. Solingen

 

Scabbard is WW2 so does not matter here

Has wear and cleaning. Looks like only 1 partial stamp on pommel. 
Crown over Script “C” on spine

Saw Teeth look mint, not messed with at all.

Sorry for so few photos , no find any more

Grip’s are really nice

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Edited by Steve1871
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Looks like a nice S84/98nAS, the scabbard was made by Rich.A.Herder in 1935 under code S/239 when i remember correctly. Boentgen and Sabin is the blade maker. How long is the blade? thanks.

Edited by AndyBsk
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I thought all 84/98 were same standard length? I on the road. Not home to take more photos or measure anything

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