AndyBsk Posted 18 June , 2021 Share Posted 18 June , 2021 The tip looks like blunt? Maybe only on photos,we dont need the measurement it should be 10 inch.its ok,dont worry about the measurements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 19 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 19 June , 2021 (edited) Andy, not sure if very tip is original or was reshaped, still has a point to me. The 84/98 did have a very slim point. Hard to tell on pics. Edited 19 June , 2021 by Steve1871 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 19 June , 2021 Share Posted 19 June , 2021 (edited) Possible, i only compared shape of tips of nr36 and 38 with 39 and it looks like the other looks more pointy even first 2 are Erfurt production and the last is Boentgen, which could be maker depended. Edited 19 June , 2021 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 19 June , 2021 Share Posted 19 June , 2021 Just arrived today from the authors (thanks Andy!), shown with one of my 71/84s (Weyersburg Kirschbaum, '87, 'R.E.3.45), and my only and rather pitiful example of a kS 98 (E&F Horster, lost its lower quillon, no spine markings, so a 'dress piece'). I await the new Ian Jackson book on the same models... Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 19 June , 2021 Share Posted 19 June , 2021 Thats really good comparation material, maybe some small errors too, but more important there a many color pictures on excellent glossy paper. Literature is the best choice to save money by some problematic deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 19 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 19 June , 2021 I heard that Anthony Carter’s books were being re-done and expanded in Russia. Is this one of them? Would think text in Russian, but does it have duel captions Russian/ English? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 21 June , 2021 Share Posted 21 June , 2021 On 19/06/2021 at 22:55, Steve1871 said: I heard that Anthony Carter’s books were being re-done and expanded in Russia. Is this one of them? Would think text in Russian, but does it have duel captions Russian/ English? Thanks It is indeed. There are a few English summaries regarding the introduction. The main joy are the coloured illustrations; detailed drawings; inclusion of private purchase examples; and copies of original specification drawings. I haven't checked. but there may be some updating on years of issue and unit marks. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafal1971 Posted 21 June , 2021 Share Posted 21 June , 2021 On 07/05/2021 at 01:50, Steve1871 said: Bayonet #33 5/6/21 71/84mS. Saw Back Bavarian B.3.R.R. 3.188 (I do not know how to make script letters or smaller numbers, sorry) Think 3rd Bavarian Reserve Regiment, 3rd Conpany, Weapon 188 Maker Soemmerda Recasso, Crown over L. And 91, the common year. The brown in top of fuller is hard dried grease, not rust. You should be able to identify that. Never had time to clean it up any. Actually, I have never cleaned any. Bayonet, only have small amount of time when get home. Hi Steve, The scabbard on this bayonet comes from the Spanish bayonet M 1893. The leather is soft, the embossing is invisible. No German controls. It has never been used with a bayonet with a saw (no saw cuts) because the Spaniards did not use them. Hence, the bayonet does not hide completely. Photo from the Internet. Best Rafal Hi Steve, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 21 June , 2021 Share Posted 21 June , 2021 Basic resumes are in both language, but major text is in russian, anyway the pieces are very nice photographed, which is the most plus to compare on real pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted 24 June , 2021 Share Posted 24 June , 2021 Hi Steve, I just purchased a German 98/05 butcher style bayonet and scabbard. I expected to find a date on the top of the blade by the handle. There was none. Can you help me with proof marks.? Regards, Dusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 24 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 24 June , 2021 Thank’s for asking Dusty, but TRAJAN. Or AndyBsk among others know a lot more than me Usually, the spine will have a crown, date under and cypher under that. On some S71 bayonets and some early 98/05’s you will see this “ Set” repeated again , crown , date and cypher, sometimes second set just has smaller crown and cypher, no date My observation is from my collection and photos of others for sale. If no date, most likely, it was scrubbed off, less likely, private purchase. Is there a 1920 stamped on cross guard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 25 June , 2021 Share Posted 25 June , 2021 16 hours ago, Dusty said: Hi Steve, I just purchased a German 98/05 butcher style bayonet and scabbard. I expected to find a date on the top of the blade by the handle. There was none. Can you help me with proof marks.? Regards, Dusty Hi, and welcome! Not all WW1-use bayonets were date-marked, but there might be other marks that would help on the blade spine, the pommel, an even sometimes on the grip screws! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 25 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 25 June , 2021 Some photos would help, and gather interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 25 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 25 June , 2021 Bayonet #40 6/25/21 Friday 84/98mS. Saw Back Crown over cypher, look like script “C”. Gottlieb Hammerfahr. Solingen Foche Was cleaned up somewhat, but still a nice piece. Saw teeth as unused, small damage to 1 grip. Only 1 partial stamp left on edge of pommel. Part worn/cleaned off. The scabbard is interesting to me. Yes the Frog stud is gone. I always thought, from looking at them, that it was a single piece, brazenly on. This one clearly shows the frog stud actually had a base piece, then the stud, which is missing. May not be too much interest, but still I learned something new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 25 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 25 June , 2021 Would not let me upload more pics, continue here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 25 June , 2021 Share Posted 25 June , 2021 It looks ok , the pommel proof is not visible, but is not so important, looks like C on spine of blade. Handle was chemically entrostet. interestingly the frog area of scabbard had clear old blueing, so the frog was there long time and preserved it from rust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 25 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 25 June , 2021 Andy, Solingen seemed to be biggest city in bayonet production, on this bayonet, say Solingen Foche? Is Foche a small suburb Town or that word mean something else? Just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 25 June , 2021 Share Posted 25 June , 2021 Foche when looking into wiki,is village of Solingen,not a district,but was higher positioned area where were located various mashinell forms,one of it Hammesfahr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted 25 June , 2021 Share Posted 25 June , 2021 8 hours ago, trajan said: Hi, and welcome! Not all WW1-use bayonets were date-marked, but there might be other marks that would help on the blade spine, the pommel, an even sometimes on the grip screws! Trajan Hi and Thanks for your welcome and response. I have post three photos showing the maker and marks in greater detail under 98/05 bayonet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 26 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2021 Thank’s Dusty and Welcome to the forum😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 26 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2021 Finished with this set, type, 71/84 & 84/98 for now. Toss a few extra photo’s in before I start next group. Enjoy ( hopefully) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted 26 June , 2021 Share Posted 26 June , 2021 Wow, very nice collection. I just recently purchased the five volume series by Baldwin "Feldzug". It includes lots of nice original photos of troops wearing 1871 pattern bayonets near the beginning of WWI (1914-), which surprised me......like they are wearing 45 year old bayonets! Any chance of finding a nice original frog for my new acquisition? Best, Dusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 27 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 27 June , 2021 S.71 frogs are around, almost never by themselves but I have a few that came with the Bayonet/scabbards. The S.71 will be my next set I will start posting, starting with the standard type first. I do not know which side of the pond you are on Dusty. I deal with a few sites in U.S., 3 in U.K. and 3-4 in Europe. Just keep surfing the web. Will see if can dig up a few pics to PM ( personal Message) you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 27 June , 2021 Share Posted 27 June , 2021 (edited) Very nice collection presented here by Steve, looks great on rifles same in the bunch. Thanks for sharing the samples. Edited 27 June , 2021 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 3 July , 2021 Author Share Posted 3 July , 2021 To start the next set of bayonets, will be the Standard I.S.71 Brass handled Bayonets. A small number of rear troops, as well as Trooped based in Germany ( the borders) as well as Germany’s colonies still had stores of the M71 ( 1871) rifle. Besides studio photos, there are regular outdoor photos of reserve/ rear troops with the rifle. The rifle never saw front line combat on the western front. The Gew.88 never had a bayonet made for it, so when it was designed, it was made to accept the S.71 bayonet. With the outbreak of the Great War, Germany was not prepared to equip every soldier with a rifle and bayonet, so, as we know, a large amount and variety of Subsitute or ERSATZ bayonets were created new as well as conversions from other older and even foreign ones. Since the S.71 was already in stock piles in various armory’s, they were used as well by reserve and other rear type units. The artillery was a large user of the S71. And still had them in reserves and in photos show they still did, at least in 1914,1915. I have an older post on the S71 PFM, the broad blade saw back. Have a few photo’s one from Eastern France where a soldier uses a S.71 as side arm, as he is using a Gew98. Another forum member last year posted a battlefield find ( France), of 2 dug up bayonets and other bits of stuff. One S98 quill back and the other was a S71. I have to search my files, been very buisy lately. But I bought a book last year just for a photo inside.Will credit the author and book when find it. But it shows a large group of British troops posing with a lot of Captured German stuff. From machine guns, helmets to 2 men in front row holding up 2 crossed bayonets, one, a standard S.71, the other, A S.71 PFM Pioneerfashinenmesser. To me, the answer to that should be As I have said before, The Artillery used the S71. As well as the S71PFM, simply a combination tool, made heavy enough to be used as a saw. Anyway. How on both sides, the enemy’s artillery was greatly feared ( look at first day of the Somme) . Artillery was fortified whenever possible against enemy artillery. Artillery was to the rear, but sometimes the front came to them, overrunning artillery positions was always a great victory . And that would explain how those bayonets became trophies in that photo. Also a photo I found ( hope find again soon) of German soldier with Gew 88 with a S71PFM marching Russian prisoners somewhere. Again, REAR area and reserve troops. But the S71 family was used in Great War with the Gew.88 and simple as a side arm as well. Actually a good variety of types in this line or “ family” of bayonets. Hope you guys enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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