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Imperial German Bayonet’s from my Collection


Steve1871
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P.S.

Do not worry about your English, heck, after a  few DRINKS, my English gets poor too

No problems there 

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On 27/01/2021 at 21:13, AndyBsk said:

There should be some new books not only Noll in that area of unit stamping, i assume they are mainly based on archive documents.

Abrecht Wacker, Joachim Goertz : Handbuch Deutscher Waffenstempel am Militaer und Dienstwaffen 1871-2000, should be about 70€, but very good, i dont have it.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Handbuch-Deutscher-Waffenstempel-Dienstwaffen-Geschichte-Kennzeichnung-Buch-Book/401047890512?epid=1904905671&hash=item5d60512a50:g:Z8UAAOSwSdZWgpHr

 

It is a bit of a mish-mash, as we say. For example, they have a whole chapter on what are apparently markings for all the German WW1 units - but it is not actually backed up by real examples. They also sumarise the 1909 regulations, when what is needed is a proper listing. I could go on... On the other hand, they do note the issue of the various marking regulations and include a section on Weimar and 3R markings.  I use copies of the original markings documents as my first reference point, then go to Wackar and Gortz. Noll I rarely use as it is not user-friendly if you want to look up a marking immediately.

 

Julian

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10 hours ago, Steve1871 said:

P.S.

Do not worry about your English, heck, after a  few DRINKS, my English gets poor too

No problems there 

Thank you for the kind words, Steve. Hirschfanger  in my photo, this is a model M 1865.

PS

Stamped C.J.4.46, i guess this is just - Garde Jager- Bataillon. 4 kompagnie, waffe nr 46, wrong not exactly stamped letter "G"

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On 29/1/2021 at 08:34, Steve1871 said:

S.65/71 HF.  Hirschfanger      G.S. 3. 119

1/29/21

 69 for. 1869

 

Well worn grips, one grip worn mostly smooth to tack on a pendant. Most German bayonet books show photos on at least one bayonet like that. A 98/05 or 71/84.  84/98. The other grip , still with wear, still has some checkering left. Scarce to have an original scabbard. No shrinkage.

Blade is very good with no sharpening or rust

. maker is  SIMSON  LUCK.  SUHL.  I had not heard of this maker before. May be rare maker, not sure

 

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My contribution on this unit marking.

A plain 84/98 with flashguard

date 1918 [very rare]

unit marking Garde Schutzen Bataillon

an extremely rare unit marking

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643727557_20180707_2045061.jpg.2c164cb3299fb9ada100cdeb167338f0.jpg

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2 hours ago, bert.f said:

Thank you for the kind words, Steve. Hirschfanger  in my photo, this is a model M 1865.

PS

Stamped C.J.4.46, i guess this is just - Garde Jager- Bataillon. 4 kompagnie, waffe nr 46, wrong not exactly stamped letter "G"

Here are some examples from this unit marking, in different types of bayonets. 

You can clearly see that G is provocing confusion with the C, but is absolutely a G. 

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4 hours ago, zuluwar2006 said:

My contribution on this unit marking.

A plain 84/98 with flashguard

date 1918 [very rare]

unit marking Garde Schutzen Bataillon

an extremely rare unit marking

1210245344_20180707_2044561.jpg.95d1d3ea3f93cbe23a636f56c7e46325.jpg

643727557_20180707_2045061.jpg.2c164cb3299fb9ada100cdeb167338f0.jpg

 

That's an unusual crown over the 'W'!

 

Julian

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I am same opinion as Trajan on that piece, i dont like the shape of crown, personally i dont like the pommel slot area it was mashined down sidewalls from someone, from this the letters and stamps on guard looks very curious??, on a 18 dated piece is hard believable there any unit stamped, as the organisation of army was fluently changed. Anyway it should be compared with inspector letters on pommel? and on spine of blade that are identical to period Gebr.Heller S84/98 from 1918.

Edited by AndyBsk
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Andy,

The late Roy (Williams) had an absolutely different opinion on this bayonet, from your's, as an excellent one and with a very rare unit marking and date!!! 

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Unfortunally there were since late 90ies already people who made some strange stamps on bayonets offered to people as Roy W. for his books, as always are in this hobby people who are money oriented and dont shy use a fake stamps. When You will please add the pictures of pommel of rifle slot and proofs on pommel, anyway i am little sceptical about the stamps, unit and the piece. But maybe i am wrong, and please dont forget Roy W. unfortunally have added some problematic pieces in his catalog book.

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Bayonet #17

2/4/21. Friday

 

S.71 HF. Hirschfanger.          No Unit on guard

metal has it’s share of ware, but has correct acceptance stamps. The Maker on recasso is worn, not fully readable. All the steel is turning patina, but still has plenty of original shine to it, no rust at all. The Grips and pins are EXELENT. 
 

   The one thing that stands out is the All leather Brown scabbard. Now all the Hirschfanger scabbards were the same, but this one completely different with no metal fittings. Most of you will think someone made post war?! I know it is a long shot to hope it might be an ersatz scabbard. From handling it. I am sure the scabbard is period made, weather ersatz or something else. Fits perfect as well. I still love it

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Looks like not correct scabbard could be used from different modell and shortened. the maker is clear Gebr.Simson Suhl. There is not visible units on guard.

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On 30/1/2021 at 12:45, zuluwar2006 said:

My contribution on this unit marking.

A plain 84/98 with flashguard

date 1918 [very rare]

unit marking Garde Schutzen Bataillon

an extremely rare unit marking

1210245344_20180707_2044561.jpg.95d1d3ea3f93cbe23a636f56c7e46325.jpg

643727557_20180707_2045061.jpg.2c164cb3299fb9ada100cdeb167338f0.jpg

A friend and great collector, send me this crowned example, very similar on this bayonet. 

Crowned markings, usual are different in shape and appearance in a lot of speciments. 

 

IMG_20210207_133944.jpg

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Thats is for Ludwig III a with variation of bavarian crown. but Your piece is prussian crown W/18 proofed. The unit by Bavaria was called KB.Leib.Rgt. when i am correct.

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Maybe it is a Wurttemburg crown?

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possible it could be other german kingdom,but the Garde Schutzen Battalion unit is then problematic. when Demitrios have any additional pictures as other proofs, shape of pommel, crossguard stamps etc that could help. The unit is not corectly stamped thats clear.

Edited by AndyBsk
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Bayonet # 18

2/12/21. Friday

 

S.65/71 HF. Hirschfanger.   68 for 1868

no scabbard

 Cross guard marked  7.J. 1.34 

7th Jager/ Jaeger Regiment. First company. Weapon # 34

It is odd to have unit marked, yet a single line, crossing out without another unit stamped on.

A S.65 HF concerted by adding a bushing to reduce the NRD to fit the M.71 Mauser making it a S.65/71 HF. In the pic the bushing can clearly be seen. Also the right side of muzzle ring has a flat door milked out to better see the low front sight of the Mauser. And as I have said on other 65/71.  These early conversions only have 3 pins holding grips on

 

The Grips are very worn down, but original, both grips are still very tight. 
All the steel is very good shape, minor wear on front cross guard markings, only light patina starting, but no rust,pitting or damage.Blade is unsharpened

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  • 2 weeks later...

Bayonet #19 

2/23/21 Thursday.             
 

S.71  HF. Hirschfanger.    No unit

Gerber Simpson Suhl Exelent grips, 5 rivet. 
Blade very good plus, no sharpening or rust

GS on base of spine and Frakturs on pommel

Sorry, but no scabbard. Very nice overall

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Edited by Steve1871
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I have never seen a crown over an “E” before, do not know if that is rare or even if it matters?

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HF71 without  acceptance,Gebr.Simson Suhl, so this bayonet was probably not part of united german army, for this speaks lack of date and acceptance, the letter E is here in latin font, which is not typical for that period should be script or gothic font , too should be compared the crown form. It could be prior rejoin of Deutsches Reich army one of the small state didnt used a large emperor stamps.

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I think/ thought they were some kind of acceptance stamps. Just not sure

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Inspector Letter under crown means proofing for dimmensions and usable and attaching on rifle, anyway as mentioned the E letter is capital font, not used in this form probably by Prussia ,should be compared on other HF71, secondly in period 1872-80 there was not war so the acceptance of crown W for Wilhelm I. should be normally there. I would compare the crown form possible bavarian or other small state? as Deutsches Reich raised in 1871 in that period were still some small states separated from central system. The other proof is on crossguard. 

When comparing bayonets HF71 15,17,19 all have no unit, Gebr.Simson with strange crown and Latin font  proof letters C,D,E .interesting, it looks like sequenced, Ruediger speaks about HF71 that Gebr.Simson delivered 1880 for Erfurt parts for assembly. Could be reserve pieces, no unit no acceptance with crown W /date.

When look at the nr.11 there is Erfurt with WKC parts, possible there is crown E on pommel, i assume the E letter could be of assembly point by Erfurt, should be compared of 1879-81 Erfurt S1871 piece, how they are stamped.

Edited by AndyBsk
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 I have one last issue S71 HF in the works, on hold,  so no bought yet, so for now, I am adding my 3 Dress S.71 HF and walking out piece, with a few extra pics for you guys, hope you enjoy. Will Start on the S.71/84  with 84/98. For next series

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Bayonets 20 - 23

2-26-21 Friday

 

S71 Dress with scabbard and portopee ( spell?)

Nice engraved on both sides with unit on one. The thread is actual silver thread.

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Second dress piece

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