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Imperial German Bayonet’s from my Collection


Steve1871
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Will start with the S98 Quill backs. I posted the unit markings from this piece before, but there was debate on the unit . and if it was part of the “ trials regiments for this bayonet. The debating never finished? 

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Trials were already realised since 1895, i assume in 1898 was the design clear, this bayonets were firstly delivered to Garde units, so the major quantities were observed by Garde as here and 99 dated for normal S98aA production.Scabbard is for Reserve regiment.

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The model S98  for 1898. I thought trials , is due to Garde regiments were only 1898 -99

 

some members Could not agree on the unit.

I thought 4th Garde Grenader, 7 Co. 80 waffe 

but was told no?

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I dont known what for other explanation for this stamp would be correct, maybe someone has the 1909 manual, anyway from manual of  1897 is this typical marking.

As You have minimum 5 Garde Regiments, various other Garde units, i assume the ammount of garde personell was about 10000 soldiers minimum, the Goertz speaks about trial Mauser rifles in ammount max.2000 pcs. i believe R.Williams has some pictures of Guard units with prototype trial M88/95 and different bayonets, same as in Ruediger book.

"3. Kaiser Alexander Garde Grenadier
Regiment Nr.1, desgl. ...............................................................
K.A.R.10.104.
4. Kaiser Franz Garde Grenadier Regiment
Nr.2, desgl. .................................................
........................K.F.R.10.104.
5. Königin Elisabeth Garde Grenadier
Regiment Nr.3, desgl. .........................................................
....K.E.R.10.104.
6. Garde Füsilier Regiment, desgl. ...................................... ....G.F.R.10.104.

Nr.4 would be had same shortage-  KAR for Koenigin Augusta Regiment nr. 4, which would be identical for KAR of 1.G.G. so i assume they used 4.G.G for Garde Grenadier Regiment Nr.4 instead stamp identical letter stamp as above KAR unit.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Königin_Augusta_Garde-Grenadier-Regiment_Nr._4

Edited by AndyBsk
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The scabbard

4.G.R (script) .9.16

script  R is usually for reserve, but 4th reserve guard does not sound right? Many of you out there know , have studied far more than I.

4 Reserve Garde 9th Conpany 16 Waffe

 

4 Reserve  Grenadier 9th company 16 Waffe

?

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as on bayonet similar marking it could be the part of the bayonet unit with Reserve  for Ersatz Battalion, anyway the 9.company is too high for it probably, the R could be too only variation stamp in this case for Garde Regiment zu Fuss nr.4, and not R script for reserve. There exist only Garde Reserve Reg. 1 and 2  in WW1 so the explanation it has more variation.

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Quick response as preparing a class and cannot check 100%...

 

No problem with the bayonet marking. The 1909 regulations fit - Garde-Grenadier-Regiment Nr4. If a pre 1909 stamp, then it should be something like the 1877 regulations (I think!) and so would read '4.G.G.R.'  I am not certain without checking further but it could have been as Andy indicates, 'K.A.R.' but that would have been unliley because of confusion with the same for Kaiser Franz Garde Grenadier Regiment. 

 

Scabbard marking needs a bit more focussed thought and research than I can offer right now... 1877 regulations would make it somthing like '4.G.R.R.', 'R.' for regiment, and 1909 would be '4.G R.E.', with 'E' for Ersatz. 

 

Julian

 

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My next bayonet is also S98. 1899

 

4.G.7.223

This seems to be lacking a letter, but simply 4th Guard, or 

4th Grenader Regiment. 7th company weapon 223, best I can come up with. It has the Ersatz Slim steel scabbard, with the 2 lines, imitating the tooling of leather scabbard. Erfurt 

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Another nice one Steve! I have never seen a 98aA over here so I am lacking one...

 

Anyway, '4.G.': not missing a letter, and is fine by the 1909 regulations for 4. Garde-Regiment zu Fuß - if it was '4.G.G.' that would be  (Königin Augusta) Garde-Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 4.

 

A nice early issue (1899) but marked quite late - that is not a problem as the regulations specify that only those bayonets in actual use (e.g., for guard duty, etc.) were to be marked.

 

Julian

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Same opinion, it should be 4.Garde Regiment zu fuss, the R. could be not added because guard of S98 is small, no problem with it, nice ww1 scabbard.

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Hey Julian, you say early issue but marked quite late????? It 1899, only second year production. I do not understand? Hey 

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Is not second year is first year of production probably, i personally never saw 1898 marked S98. but maybe someone has it in collection. Julian probably means the unit stamping was added later.

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I heard or read somewhere that a book has 1 photo of a 98 spine date? I thought S98 quill went into production in November 1898.As always, anyone can correct me if I am wrong. No problem for me

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2 hours ago, Steve1871 said:

Hey Julian, you say early issue but marked quite late????? It 1899, only second year production. I do not understand? Hey 

 

33 minutes ago, AndyBsk said:

Is not second year is first year of production probably, i personally never saw 1898 marked S98. but maybe someone has it in collection. Julian probably means the unit stamping was added later.

 

26 minutes ago, Steve1871 said:

I heard or read somewhere that a book has 1 photo of a 98 spine date? I thought S98 quill went into production in November 1898.As always, anyone can correct me if I am wrong. No problem for me

 

Yes, I meant the unit marking was added rather late - 1909 or later: perhaps 1914 even???!!! 

 

Official production runs and issue of the S.98a.A. did indeed begin in 1899, but there are some 14 examples marked 'W 98', all for pre-production trials, issued to the 4 Garde Jägerbattalion, Garde Schützenbattalion, 1 Garde-Regiment zu Fuß, and the Infanterie-Schiess-Schule.

 

Julian

 

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Cool, then I have two first year production as97 quillbacks so far😊

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Sorry, my typing meant S98 Quillbacks

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To make some order here, trying to do a better post. this is

Bayonet #3.  S98aA

 

S98aA      Erfurt  Mfg.

Spine dated 1901. Prussian with scabbard, the scabbard is proof marked, but not unit marked. Unit. 37th Infantry Regiment. 8th company. Weapon no. 185. 
 

From my collection and what I see on the web and for sale. I very seldom see EARLY/ Low unit numbers. It would not be that they were in action longer. The units, regardless of their number or history were put in action in random order. Who ( unit) was available when and where. But in my observation, most  S98 Quillbacks had unit numbers from the 90’s and usually unit numbers over 100.  Does anyone feel the same?? Just curious to me
 

Anyway, this is one of my better S98’s of mine, grips have few small nicks, but has nice rich color, grain stands out nice when pic’s blown up and the “ Ribs” are not worn, nice full contours. The steel is nice shape and the screws still have their fakturs on both sides.

scabbard in good shape, has small partial fold near bottom, but only on one side. Seam intact. Hope you guy’s enjoy

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I sorry, description right, but the last pics duplicated, will re- do the pics

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Bayonet #4. S98aA

 

Another Prussian S98aA, single piece grip, This one is in rough shape. grip has small crack around a screw. A large stain (easy project to fix) but metal if fair+. To good shape, with steel scabbard. Seems no one wanted for the flaws, I got it cheap. Worth it for the scabbard, being an aA ( first pattern) being a bonus

 160.R.11.   Should be  160th Infantry Regiment. 11th weapon. Hope you like.The markings are not too clear from wear

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Certainly has that 'Been there, done that' look about it! Will you trade or keep? I guess with a unit-mark a keeper?

 

Julian 

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160.IR should be the unit, or 60IR, as the first 1 is smaller as the other 2 digits, 11.Company. from the rust areas on blade and pommel, i assume the ersatz scabbard was joined with the bayonet in collector life, not in service time.

Edited by AndyBsk
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Hey Julian, I have no one to trade with

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On 07/12/2020 at 09:44, AndyBsk said:

160.IR should be the unit, or 60IR, as the first 1 is smaller as the other 2 digits, 11.Company. from the rust areas on blade and pommel, i assume the ersatz scabbard was joined with the bayonet in collector life, not in service time.

 

A VERY slight possibility to explain the size difference between the '1' and the '60', and the '1' here not matching the '1' elsewhere is that it went first to 60IR then to 160 IR. There are for some reason many more 160IR marked bayonets around than 60IR. 

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Bayonet -#5. S98nA

 

S.98nA second pattern

148.R.R.134
1903

148th Reserve Regiment. Weapon #134

Prussian Bayonet with a steel scabbard

Grips and grooves in very good shape with good Fakturs on the screws and pommel

Steel scabbards are Ersatz or replacement. The Thinner steel ones, with ball type finals are the more common ones. This one is a little more scarce, being broader. I believe the body is the same width as the FAG flanged type. These ( my own belief) are a duel type scabbard for the S98,in that you simply fit a narrow mouth/throat piece for standard or the broader one to fit the saw back versions. My FAG scabbard has the Broad saw mouth/ throat piece. This scabbard has no final and tooling lines pressed in on the making of scabbard

 

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