ANZAC Cove Destroyed !

[southafricawargraves]

Anzac Cove at sunset, Ari Burnu on the tip on the right.

The long concrete Anzac commerative concrete structure plainly visible. This shot taken from the CWGC cottages facing south.

Note the whole "Cove" feel to the picture.

[southafricawargraves]

Still unconvinced? How would you fit 10000 Aussies and Kiwis on Anzac "Beach"? No that would be impractical. They would definately need a "Cove" area.

Anzac Day 2003 (dawn).

[Guest CGI]

Ralph,

Thank you again for pointing out to us all that Anzac Cove is between Ari Burnu and Nebrunesi Point. The fact it is so small must have been responsible for our collective mistake.

CGI

[southafricawargraves]

In this photo taken on Anzac Day you can see the number of busses which are parked all the way to Suvla (white bits). No place to turn around. They have to take a thirty km detour through some rough road to get here. What normally takes about 10 minutes from Ecebaet is an hour long bus ride on Anzac Day.

I've brightened the photo, but it was taken at about 4:30 AM or so.

[southafricawargraves]

Ari Burnu cemetery at south tip of Anzac Cove area. The ground levels out fairly evenly all the way to the water. Not steep at all.

[Max]

In this photo taken on Anzac Day you can see the number of busses which are parked all the way to Suvla (white bits). No place to turn around. They have to take a thirty km detour through some rough road to get here. What normally takes about 10 minutes from Ecebaet is an hour long bus ride on Anzac Day.

Obviously the reason the Australian government asked for road improvements.

southafricawargraves, thanks for the photos of the specific area.

Andy

[southafricawargraves]

Ari Burnu cem looking up from the beach. The small hump on the left is the Sphinx.

[Guest CGI]

Ralph,

While you're busy, could you please also warn the New Zealand government they made the same mistake? They will certainly appreciate your work.

CGI

[southafricawargraves]

Lone Pine Cemetery on Anzac Day.

[baby700]

Thank you southafrican,

For the new coordinates and pictures of the Anzac Cove!!!

We beleived that was a North Beach.

So we must changed all the history and litterature.

Great contribution...

P.S Especially I liked the photo of drunken Australian, direct connection with the subject.

[southafricawargraves]

Lone Pine cemetery on a normal day.

[southafricawargraves]

My point to all the photos is that what has been show otherwise are not in fact where every single tour operator takes the tourists and tells them is that this is "Anzac Cove". ANZAC Day ceremonies are held north of Ari Burnu. That concrete Anzac Cove block is yes in fact south of Ari Burnu. But if you wanted to real specific about the bulk force landing area, it nearer to Beach cemetery. Where those photos are shown dumping dirt and excavating is north of Beach cemetery.

The ground is extremely unstable there. I once saw a near intact rum jar on the side of the road there. When I hopped off the farm tractor I was hitching on to get out to the battlefields and walked back to get it, the ground had given away to landslide and buried it. The corner where they are digging is a death trap. It is only a matter of time before a large rock gets knocked loose and takes out a bus of Australia's and New Zealand's finest.

Beach cemetery pic below.

The inscription on the marble stone of remembrance is incribed: The Australian and New Zealand Army Corps landed near this spot at dawn on April 25th, 1915

[southafricawargraves]

In case anyone wants to see what the Sphinx looked like in April 2003 here it is.

You can clearly see the soil erosion.

[southafricawargraves]

The ground has changed dramatically there since 1915. It is near to impossible to have anything remain intact there. The major fire that swept through Gallipoli in the 1980s destroyed much of the greenery, but in fact made it most resemble when the soldiers were actually there. The greenery being burned however made unstable soil conditions that when spring melt comes it can cause landslides. Mother nature herself is more responsible for damage done towards Gallipoli topography.

The ground gives up her buried treasures so frequently there that if you know what to look for you can easily find bones, shell casings, projectiles, shrapnel, rum jar bits, ammunition boxes, water bottles, fuses, etc. One guy I know found an intact WW1 bugle with Australian markings at Quinn's Post in 2003, right next to the road. Another found a POW tag for a Turk lying on the beach. A group of friends and I all went one day and found a casualty clearing station in Suvla and quickly found bones, a button, medicine bottles and chunks of rum jar.

I took nothing but pictures and left nothing but footprints. For us Canadians (yes I am a Canadian) Gallipoli is important as well. We had our very own Newfoundland Regiment there. At the Anzac Day celebrations in 2003 I was one of three Canadians that I knew of in the crowd of 10000+. Gallipoli is a scared place for me as well, but if we have to make it safe for future generations then so be it.

Below is a sign you will everywhere on the Gallipoli peninsula.

[southafricawargraves]

Below is from the casualty clearing station in Suvla.

Chunks of rum jar, a button (shown on the white dressing or chunk of shirt we found - top left), bones, clear medicine bottles (hard to pick out in photo). All this lying in the open as we found it. We left it there for others to find some other day.

[southafricawargraves]

Chunk of a rib bone I think, found with a chunk of uniform that had some buttons on it, as well as some finger bones. All found by side of road next to Quinn's Post.

[southafricawargraves]

The dirt road to Lala Baba Cemetery in Suvla. This is the smooth bit. Was told it was unaccesible sometimes in winter and spring because the road can wash away. We could have definately used a 4X4 that day.

[Mat McLachlan]

Just to clear this up once and for all (without sarcasm, which muddies the point a little bit):

The small beach between Ari Burnu and Hell Spit is DEFINITELY Anzac Cove. This is where the majority of the Aussies landed on April 25, 1915 and where they established their base of operations for the Gallipoli campaign. It's where the sign saying 'Anzac Cove' is located. It's where Anzac Day celebrations used to be held until the crowds got too big and the commemoration area was moved around the corner to North Beach, where a brand new commemoration area was built. It's this new area that features the low stone wall that says 'ANZAC' - this is the 'stage' where the official Anzac service takes place. The confusion is understandable - anyone who saw the official Anzac Day ceremony being held above a beach, in front of a large sign saying 'Anzac' would assume this is Anzac Cove. It's not - it's North Beach.

Beach Cemetery is at the southern end of Anzac Cove and Ari Burnu Cemetery is at the northern end. For confirmation, see the map in CGI's earlier post.

In any case, to get bogged down in discussions about which cove the Turks are digging up misses the point: this whole area is an extremely important historical site which has been well-preserved by Turkey for 90 years. Regardless of whether the Australian government carelessly requested road improvements, or whether local contractors need the money, or whether the Turkish tourism department sees an opportunity to bring an extra million tourists to the area, the site of bulldozers scouring the earth above Anzac Cove makes the heart sink.

Mat

[Mat McLachlan]

If anyone is still confused, here's a map showing the Anzac area taken from the Australian government's guide to visiting Gallipoli, www.anzacsite.gov.au

Since 2000, Anzac Day services have been held at the Anzac Commerative Site at North Beach, labelled '1' on the map.

Ari Burnu, the small knoll at the northern end of Anzac Cove, is where the service used to be held and is labelled '2'. This is also the site of Ari Burnu Cemetery and the location of the Kabatepe Ariburun Beach Memorial which contains Ataturk's ode to the fallen that Ralph mentioned in a previous post.

Anzac Cove is numbered '3'.

The bulldozers are doing their dirty work south of number '3'.

Cheers,

Mat

[Guest sapper6]

In NZ its looking like our Government had a hand in the works being carried out but as usual they will lie.

Lets invade The Cove and surprise the Turks. I bet its never been tried and a friend of mine, Winstung Churchill has a great idea for a landing.

[Hedley Malloch]

From Saturday's Australian papers:

Ambassador to oversee Gallipoli work

12mar05

AUSTRALIA'S ambassador to Turkey has been sent to Gallipoli to oversee road construction work after photographs of bone fragments uncovered at the site were published in the media.

The pictures show that important artefacts such as bullets, cartridge cases, axe heads and water bottles have also been unearthed.

Australian diggers today said the work should be discontinued if the bones proved to be human, while the federal opposition said the Howard Government must act to protect the precious remains.

The Federal Government asked for road improvements to make it safer for the increasing number of people visiting the site of the 1915 campaign.

A huge number of visitors is expected for next month's 90th anniversary services, with as many as 16,000 people attending the dawn service on Anzac Day in recent years.

Turkish authorities have been in a mad scramble trying to finish the construction work by April 25, but have insisted no soldiers' remains had been disturbed.

Foreign Minister Alexander Downer today said ambassador Jean Dunn had arrived in Gallipoli yesterday, and had since visited Anzac Cove.

"She reports that as far as she is aware there are no Australian bones or for that matter, Turkish bones, being dug up," he told reporters in Adelaide.

"She hasn't seen any evidence of that and that any work that's been done is being done with an appropriate degree of sensitivity."

Mr Downer said the only minor change made since Ms Dunn's arrival had been that soil from the project was no longer being dumped on Anzac Cove beach.

"But nevertheless, there are some photographs in today's newspaper, so I've asked her to stay on for a further twenty-four hours to investigate how those photographs could have been taken," he said.

"We need an explanation for why the media reports are different to the information we're being given."

RSL Victorian President David McLachlan today said if the bones were shown to be human, work should cease until the remains had been buried elsewhere.

"If they are human remains they deserve the dignity of a proper funeral and a proper burial," Mr McLachlan told Channel 10.

And Opposition environment and heritage spokesman Anthony Albanese said the photographs must shake the government out of its complacency.

"Photographic evidence of bones found at Anzac Cove confirms the Howard Government's failure to protect this precious area," he said.

"It is a sacred site for all Australians which helps define our national identity."

Prime Minister John Howard yesterday said Turkish authorities were handling the road works in a sensitive manner.

"Bear in mind that 60,000 Turks died in Gallipoli and the idea that the Turks would be automatically insensitive to this matter is false," he said.

Bear in mind that Gallipoli is an agricultural area and that not all bones found there are likely to be human. I 'discovered' what I assumed were human remains in Gully Ravine, took careful photos and showed them to a UK doctor only to be assured that they were animal remains. Care needs to be taken.

[Martin Brown]

It isn't really the bones that are at issue here, although archaeological approaches to the recovery of bodies does improve their chances of identification, as well as gaining other information. The key issue is the integrity of the landscape and its sustainability as an evocative, understandable yet working and accessible landscape.

It is possible to allow development in such a landscape, indeed it may become vital, as seems to be the case here, but it should be done in a sensitive way with appropriate environmental, archaeological and landscape assessments and with appropriate mitigation measures implemented, be that archaeological excavation, screening of new construction or avoidance of rare species.

Of course a national park should have a managent plan that would set all this out. If this situation isn't to happen again the various stakeholder groups and governments should start lobbying for management plans and the like. The fuss over the work that's happened should seek to ensure these mechanisms are in place so that next time someone says "can you do something about..." the mechanisms are there for study and mitigation.

Incidentally it's not just the Turks who undertake works without mitigation, a major monument to the British missing in France recently had new facilites built without adequate archaeological investigation.

[Mark A]

Martin,

Do you mean Thiepval? I though surveys were done there? Anyway, don't want to hijack this thread.

M

[Auimfo]

Thanks Mat for confirming the "where's Anzac Cove" question. I and a few others know it's location but we couldn't convince Ralph that he was confusing it with North Beach (I'm not sure he's even convinced now!)

I can imagine that quite a few people who don't know much about the campaign but go to the April ceremonies are probably led to believe the new commemoration area is Anzac Cove.

Unfortunately, it still appears that the Gov't thinks it's all about disturbing graves and bodies. How naieve do they think we are? Or more to the point - how naieve are they?? Will they ever get it? - doubtful.

Tim L.

[Chris Henschke]

So...according to Ralph's post of 13 Mar 05, Ari Burnu is SOUTH of ANZAC Cove.

Then all the maps are wrong. That's cleared that up.

I havn't been there since 1988. Thanks to Mat for pointing out the different sites used for the dawn service - interesting to see how the amount of people has grown. And that is what the whole point of the 'upgrade' is all about. I'm in two minds about it.

It seems the main problem is the amount of buses and turn around/parking space for them. Restricting the number of buses (and size) would mitigate that. Not bulldozing sites of significance.

The other problem is things like 'car parks' on turkish Quinn's Post. The decision to build there is unbelievable. If people really want to go there, they should be willing to walk for 15-20 minutes. I'm sure there are plenty of places to build car parks that are not so significant. Are they just catering for people's laziness?

The days of hitching a lift on a tractor are probably gone. The numbers who attend the dawn Service are growing. Now that the decision to upgrade the roads has been made, there is not much that can be done. Interestingly, it was kept quiet until the work commenced.

Chris Henschke