22nd Battery Machine Gun Corps (Motors)

[pjwmacro]

1647 Gnr Archibald Joseph PURVES 

For some reason his MIC lists him as MGC (Cav) - although from his number he should have been Motors, which appears to be confirmed by the BWM Medal Roll.

Archibald was born in St George, Edinburgh May 1892 (I think the 8th but the record i s very hard to read)' Son of George, a master ginsmith and Margaret nee WILSON. He had the following siblings;

George b 1884

Elizabeth b 1887

William b 1890

Alfred E b 1895

Arthur E b 1897

Maggie E b 1899

 

Archibald discharged 2 Jan 1920 with, so far as I am aware the BWM only. He married in 1923 to Elizabeth nee MALCOLM. He died in Ratho, Mid-Lothian, from General Thrombosis, 22 Apr 1965, aged 72, listed as a Civil Servant Retired, address 9 Freelands Rd, Ratho. The informant is listed as a son (signature without first name ) of 9 (illegible possibly Awanston, Grove, Edinburgh 10.

Any help in identifying the son and other descendants would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,Paul

[david murdoch]

20 hours ago, pjwmacro said:

12 1647 Gnr Archibald Joseph PURVES 

For some reason his MIC lists him as MGC (Cav) - although from his number he should have been Motors, which appears to be confirmed by the BWM Medal Roll.

Archibald was born in St George, Edinburgh May 1892 (I think the 8th but the record i s very hard to read)' Son of George, a master ginsmith and Margaret nee WILSON. He had the following siblings;

George b 1884

Elizabeth b 1887

William b 1890

Alfred E b 1895

Arthur E b 1897

Maggie E b 1899

 

Archibald discharged 2 Jan 1920 with, so far as I am aware the BWM only. He married in 1923 to Elizabeth nee MALCOLM. He died in Ratho, Mid-Lothian, from General Thrombosis, 22 Apr 1965, aged 72, listed as a Civil Servant Retired, address 9 Freelands Rd, Ratho. The informant is listed as a son (signature without first name ) of 9 (illegible possibly Awanston, Grove, Edinburgh 10.

Any help in identifying the son and other descendants would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,Paul

Paul. I have those documents from Scotlands People, but  as you say the birth date and the informant on the death certificate are hard to read. I had a look on the births in possible time frame after he was married for all male Purves born in Edinburgh area but getting 94 entries! I think the son's address was 12 Swanston Grove 10 (post code today is EH10). In the newspapers, the  only hit for Archibald Joseph Purves I found was for his marriage in 1923. His wife's name is given as Elizabeth Davidson Malcolm Chalmers and on the marriage certificate its Chalmers Malcolm.  She died in Melrose in 1988 aged 92  (so born 1896) but her death certificate is too recent so not online so can't see who the informant would be. As an old widowed lady may have been living with son or daughter.

[pjwmacro]

23 hours ago, david murdoch said:

In the newspapers, the  only hit for Archibald Joseph Purves I found was for his marriage in 1923. His wife's name is given as Elizabeth Davidson Malcolm Chalmers and on the marriage certificate its Chalmers Malcolm.  She died in Melrose in 1988 aged 92  (so born 1896) but her death certificate is too recent so not online so can't see who the informant would be. As an old widowed lady may have been living with son or daughter.

Thanks David. I have some family business to attend to over the next few days, but once back I'll see if I can get a copy of Elizabeth's death from the GRO. I don't think there is a time restriction to apply for it - and it was 30 years ago this year? Maybe that can take us forward.

Regards Paul

[pjwmacro]

Decided to leave 1650 Gnr Charles Thom(p)son MMGS / MGC(M) as a "rainy day project" to be pursued at a later date - unless anyone can throw in a suggestion to narrow the search fields down.

 

The man we are interested in was 22 Bty MMG. Probably a Scot. I think awarded BWM only - the roll for which records Charles Thomson (no p) but the MIC transcript is for 1650 Charles Thompson (with p). I suspect the Thompson spelling is probably the correct one - but nothing at this stage to confirm that. I can find no service record for a 1650 Thom(p)son in any part of the MGC. To add to the confusion I can find a service record for a Charles Thomson, born Edinburgh around 1894, served with a Highland Bn from Sep 1914, transfered in the field Apr 16 to MGC (inf) - MGC number 20692. This man then discharged to commission TC 30 Nov 17 - but he is not our man!

 

Other "rainy day projects" include; McDonald and MacDonald (fortunately different first names) and the brothers (Collins - for whom a 3rd brother also served in ASC!) and a couple of others with common surnames and no other clues!

 

Regards, Paul

Edited 25 January , 2018 by pjwmacro

[pjwmacro]

Slightly off topic, but an interesting thread has been started on 5 MMG Bty, including photos and names. I have checked the names but not yet found any matches with 22 Bty names. Probably not surprising as majority of 5 MMG Bty transfered into Heavy.Branch and thenTank Corps when 5 Bty disbanded - in Nov 16, some 8 months after 22 had reached India.

Worth checking out.

Regards, Paul

 

[pjwmacro]

Doing some work over the weekend on 1751 Gnr Edward Dennys Losco Walton, believed to be a member of 22 Bty although not sure which section. Also looks as if he discharged  in Apr 1919, so wasn't with 22 Bty for the 3rd Afghan War.

 

Born in Southwell, Nottinghamshire, United Kingdom in 1887 to Annie Eliza and Edward Charles Walton. Edward (father) was born abt 1860 in Gelong, Australia - I haven't yet found trace of his parents and what they were doing out there. Annie was a couple of years older and born in Cromwell,Nottinghamshire.

 

Edward D L had the following siblings:

Catherine J born 1886/7

Charles Bel born 1891 - any ideas as to what Bel might be an abbreviation for?

Hilda Mary born 1895

Annie Maggie born 1899

 

In 1891 the family were living Village St, North Muskham, Nottinghamshire. Edward Charles is listed as a Beehive manufacturer. By 1901 they are living in the Newcastle Arms Inn, North Muskham and Edward Charles is listed as a Horticultural Builder. In the 1911 census they are still living in North Muskham, with Edward Charles shown as a Joiner and Sectional Wood and Iron Buildings worker. Both his sons are listed as Joiners and Carpenters.

 

Edward D L Walton died in Southwell in1954, aged 67. I haven't yet found a record of marriage or children.

 

Anyone able to help any further??  Regards Paul

 

[pjwmacro]

7 hours ago, pjwmacro said:

any ideas as to what Bel might be an abbreviation for?

 

Got it:  He was Charles Belfield Walton (Belfield his mother's maiden name) killed as a Pte in the KSLI:

 

"He was the son of Edward Charles and Annie Eliza (née Belfield) Walton of North Muskham Newark. He was the brother of C Isabella, Edward Denys Losco, Hilda May and Maggie Annie Walton. They lived at North Muskham Nottinghamshire. ED Losco served in India returning safely to inherit the family firm.  He was a bell ringer at St Wilfrid's Church North Muskham and a former chiorboy. He worked as a joiner/carpenter in his father's business which produced single storey homes of wood and iron."

From http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/rollofhonour/People/Details/710

 

I wonder if his brother's death precipitated Edward's discharge and return from India, ahead of the majority of his peers?

 

Regards, Paul

[david murdoch]

20 hours ago, pjwmacro said:

 

Got it:  He was Charles Belfield Walton (Belfield his mother's maiden name) killed as a Pte in the KSLI:

 

"He was the son of Edward Charles and Annie Eliza (née Belfield) Walton of North Muskham Newark. He was the brother of C Isabella, Edward Denys Losco, Hilda May and Maggie Annie Walton. They lived at North Muskham Nottinghamshire. ED Losco served in India returning safely to inherit the family firm.  He was a bell ringer at St Wilfrid's Church North Muskham and a former chiorboy. He worked as a joiner/carpenter in his father's business which produced single storey homes of wood and iron."

From http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/rollofhonour/People/Details/710

 

I wonder if his brother's death precipitated Edward's discharge and return from India, ahead of the majority of his peers?

 

Regards, Paul

Paul. We found earlier one of the others Gunner Alex Chisholm 1641 lost a brother in April 1918. Checking his discharge date he only discharged end of January 1920. I don't think a  loss of a family member would influence discharge date. It would not be surprising if more related casualties come to light. Certainly by the end of the war they would probably all have friends, neighbours, cousins who had died.

I found Edward Walton's probate, on which it states his widow's name as Ida, so he was married. His address at this time was Tudor Court Sutton on Trent. His wife was Ida Taylor (b. 29/5/1898) They were married September 1919 and had a son Geoffrey Charles Dennys Walton born 19/10/1920 died 16/3/1982. He was married in 1949 to Audrey Mary April Randle (b.1929 d.1978).

There are a couple of active family trees on Ancestry for both sides of the family. More recent part is private, but indicates that Edward D L Walton had/has four grandchildren. I will try contacting the owners of these trees.

 

[pjwmacro]

52 minutes ago, david murdoch said:

I found Edward Walton's probate, on which it states his widow's name as Ida, so he was married. His address at this time was Tudor Court Sutton on Trent. His wife was Ida Taylor (b. 29/5/1898) They were married September 1919 and had a son Geoffrey Charles Dennys Walton born 19/10/1920 died 16/3/1982. He was married in 1949 to Audrey Mary April Randle (b.1929 d.1978).

There are a couple of active family trees on Ancestry for both sides of the family. More recent part is private, but indicates that Edward D L Walton had/has four grandchildren. I will try contacting the owners of these trees.

 

You beat me to it David.  I found the details of Geoffrey Charles Dennys Walton last night, including marriage to Audrey M A Randle, and 4 children (EDL Walton's g/children) - either a girl and 3 boys or 2 of each.  I have messaged the owners of Galty and (I think) Bellingham trees - which seemed to have the most reliable info - but no response yet.

 

Also worth noting - I am not yet convinced those details are correct for Audrey M A Randle.  I found other possibilities on various trees which indicated 1931 as birthdate and 1993 as death date - bearing in mind she might be alive still!  IIRC one tree had Audrey Mary April Randle (with the birth and death dates you have given) as married to Charles Dennis Walton (I know - its just a modern variation of the spelling) in Q2or3 1949, but didn't have the correct parents for Charles!  So I`m convinced EDLW's son was Geoffrey Charles Dennys Walton,  born 19/10/1920 died 16/3/1982, married Audrey M A Randle in 1949, and had children - but corroboration still required for Audrey's details.

 

And yes you are probably correct loss of a family member would not influence discharge date - although I guess Edward's father would have been keen to get him back if he was to take over the family business as the church memorial indicates.

 

Regards, Paul

[pjwmacro]

Realised why I was having trouble finding 1276 Gnr George Learmouth (Learmonth) Hark(n)ess.  He is actually HARKESS (without an N)' in fact he has 2 MICs with his 1276 number, one as Harkess and one as Harness. But he is definitely Harkess on the BWM roll. Cannot find service papers or the IGSM roll. But have found probable death date, potential birth and it looks as if he had a son.  More to follow. Need to get some sleep!

Regards, Paul

[david murdoch]

14 hours ago, pjwmacro said:

Realised why I was having trouble finding 1276 Gnr George Learmouth (Learmonth) Hark(n)ess.  He is actually HARKESS (without an N)' in fact he has 2 MICs with his 1276 number, one as Harkess and one as Harness. But he is definitely Harkess on the BWM roll. Cannot find service papers or the IGSM roll. But have found probable death date, potential birth and it looks as if he had a son.  More to follow. Need to get some sleep!

Regards, Paul

Paul. I think that was my bad - typo on my list from a way back, as I have his MIC(s) and medal roll entries, and his soldier file as Harkess. On the Scotlands People records Harkess is not that common a name, and the bulk of them appear in the Edinburgh/Lothian area. On the IGSM roll he's under George L. Harkess. That roll in Ancestry is misplaced under "Battle of Waterloo"!  I think his middle name maybe Learmont. There are several George Learmont Harkess born over the years all on the east side of Edinburgh, but I've not looked them up previously, and three fighting age for WW1.

Edited 14 February , 2018 by david murdoch

[pjwmacro]

On 14/02/2018 at 14:49, david murdoch said:

!  I think his middle name maybe Learmont. There are several George Learmont Harkess born over the years all on the east side of Edinburgh, but I've not looked them up previously, and three fighting age for WW1.

 

Thanks David

Edit: detail shown in this post below is incorrect. David Murdoch has provided me with a correct timeline for 1276 George Learmonth Harkness, by PM, and confirmed the detail he has provided in post #689. Just checking with David that he is content for me to publish the full timeline.

I think he is George Learmonth Harkess born 1890/1 to James G(or W) Harkess (b1858/9) and Euphemia (b 1862/3). On the 1891 census living at 14 West Nicholson St, Edinburgh. James's occupation Funeral Undertaker. 1901 census living at 11 West Richmond St. Shows George had 2 elder sisters (Euphemia and Mary), 2 younger brothers (John and Alexander) and a youngest sister (Annie). Cannot find a 1911 census record.

George's Harkess MIC records an address of 9 Lochrin Terrace, Edinburgh. There are 1926/32 probate records for a George Learmonth Harkness, Funeral Undertaker of 1 Lochrin Terrace, d 14 Apr 1926, one of his executors being a son, George Learmonth Harkess. There is a further probate record for a George Learmouth Harkess d 25 Nov 1953 in Edinburgh, confirmation including Harkess Thomas (possibly a son?).  On that logic MMGS George must have married(?) aged about 20 around 1910'with George Jnr being born in 1911, and hence reaching 21 years in 1932. And George(snr) followed James his father into the Undertakers business following discharge from 22 Bty.

On the basis of the locations/professions above I ruled out the George L Harkness b 1890 in Edinburgh to the widowed Mary D Harkess (living with her parents in 1891) and the George Learmonth Harkess b Edinburgh 11 Oct 1898 to W Harkess,  and who joined the RAF 20 May 1919 (service # 329976).

Thoughts welcomed

Regards, Paul

Edited 15 February , 2018 by pjwmacro
Includes incorrect details

[david murdoch]

Paul. I'll do some digging on the Scottish records. As I mentioned there are a number of George L Harkess in the same area, and probably all related, as the branches seem to have all called their sons George Learmonth - after the grandfather (also an undertaker). Looks like the undertakers was a well known and established family business. An  undertaker business still exists in the area under the Harkess name but don't think there is still a direct family involvement as it was taken over and now  part of the CO-OP group. The valuation roles for 1925 show George Learmonth Harkess (Undertaker)as tenant at 1 Lochrin terrace and a "George Harkess Jun."  Undertaker tenant at No.9. Valuation rolls of 1915 also show George Learmonth Harkess (Undertaker) as tenant at 1 Lochrin terrace. These houses still exist and are a row of stone tenement houses  - with a number of flats at each number. I found death certificate for the George Learmonth Harkess died 1926 age 62 and the informant was son George L Harkess  of 9 Lochrin Terrace. So for sure father and son. The death certificate gives his wife as being Mary Harkess (nee Dainty). Looking up births for MMGS George I get a birth certificate for him as born 26/1/1895 at No.1 West Nicholson St, Edinburgh, to George Learmonth Harkess and Mary Harkess (Ms. Dainty). The parents were married in London 13/9/1892. Checking now the death records, our man died Edinburgh 1980 aged 85 (record in not on line but entry shows mother's maiden name as Dainty). For marriages there were three George Learmonth Harkess (presumably cousins) married in Edinburgh in 1920's, so checking them all. Our man married Isabella Somerville Weir 28/6/1923. She died of an illness  aged 45  1/1/1940 at 1 Lochrin Terrace. I'll send you the relevant certificates by message. As for children looking 1924 -1934 there are 7 Harkess children born in the right area, but certificates not on line so can't check the parents . Given they appear to have stayed in Lochrin Terrace they would be registered in Edinburgh George square. There are two more George Learmonth's one born in 1924 and one born/died at birth 1929 (Father. Hugh Harkess Undertaker of 14 Lochrin Terrace).

 

http://www.hwharkessfuneralsedinburgh.co.uk/our-homes/h-w-harkess-newington-77-south-clerk-street-newington

[pjwmacro]

Gosh this is getting complicated. Fascinating that the undertakers remains as Harkess. I think I need to spend more time on Scotland's People. I'll check the message and come back to you. Paul

Edited 15 February , 2018 by pjwmacro

[pjwmacro]

On 11/08/2017 at 14:24, david murdoch said:

checked up the medal index cards, but can find only one Hoisey, and he does not appear to have served in India. There are a number of Hoise  and Hoose  Hausey type names though

@JPJamie

Ref Hoisey the boxer. I found William Hausey Royal Engineers then RFC then RAF - but pretty sure it wasn't him as he was in France 1917 through 19. He was also a naughty boy - absence and drunk.

Also found the only Hoisey David indicated. He was a Private in the Northumberland Hussars, Corps of Hussars and 5th RRC (not sure what RRC is). But. as David said he his MIC shows the BWM and VM but no indication of service in India. Best Paul

Edited 19 February , 2018 by pjwmacro

[pjwmacro]

Courtesy of David Murdoch. Timeline for 1276 Gnr George Learmonth Harkess

 

Born 26/1/1895 at No.1 West Nicholson St, Edinburgh

Parents George Learmonth Harkess and Mary Harkess (Ms. Dainty) who were married 13/9/1892 in London. So no Scottish record.

1911 Census living at 1 Lochrin Terrace. (father appears incorrectly noted as John) but mother Mary gives place of birth England.

At this time George Learmonth Harkess (MMGS) age 16 and a watch repairer, and younger brother Hugh age 14.

1915 valuation roll gives George Learmonth Harkess Sr. renting 1 Lochran Terrace.

MIC gives George Learmonth Harkess (MMGS) at 9 Lochran Terrace. 

1923 George Learmonth Harkess (MMGS) married Isabella Somerville Weir.

1925 valuation roll show George Learmonth Harkess (Undertaker)as tenant at 1 Lochrin terrace and a "George Harkess Jun."  Undertaker tenant at No.9.

1926 death of father shows them being at same addresses.

1929 Infant death record indicates brother Hugh living at 14 Lochrin Terrace.

1940 Wife,Isabella, died at 1 Lochrin Terrace age 45.

1980 George Learmonth Harkess  died Edinburgh aged 85 (record in not on line but entry shows mother's maiden name as Dainty).

 

George Learmonth Harkess (Jnr- or the 3rd!) died in Edinburgh, 10 years after his father, in 1990. Still working on finding his marriage records but should be a strong chance that there are living grandchildren and probably great grandchildren of 1276 Gnr George L Harkess. We probably have a photo on this thread - just need to identify him.

 

Best Paul

[pjwmacro]

2298 Gnr Harry Edward Laws

 

Photo from @JPJamie''s James Petrie Jamieson album. Not sure if @abowell97 has a duplicate in Walter Patrick's album. I haven't from Bill Macro's.

 

Harry Edward Laws was born in Norwich 27 or 28th Sep 1897 the son of Charles Robert (b1857) and Alice Jane (b1860) Laws. Curiously he was christened (31 Oct 1897 at Great Fransham)as Edward Harry - however, all census record and death record is as Harry Edward.

 

The family were living at 117 Earlham Rd, Heigham, Norwich in both 1901 and 1911 census. His siblings were Sydney E (b 1884), Frank Charles (b 1885), Percy W (b 1888), Hilda Alice (b 1890). Harry died in Q1 1982. 

Working on marriage and descendants. Currently 2 potential marriages; first in Q3 1925 to Doris B MacKenzie and the second possibility Q3 1945to Elizabeth M Applegate.

 

Regards, Paul

Edited 18 February , 2018 by pjwmacro
Sibling Sydney added.

[pjwmacro]

Any view as to what it says in the remarks column of Charles McDonalds MIC?

Thanks, Paul 

[abowell97]

8 hours ago, pjwmacro said:

Not sure if @abowell97 has a duplicate in Walter Patrick's album. I haven't from Bill Macro's.

 

I don't have that photograph either, though I recognise him from one or two of the group photos. 

Not great quality, but I'm pretty sure it's the same man.

 

As for the remarks section, it looks like "Died 1927, HW/3/21674" though it's hard to tell...

 

Regards, 

Alex.

[pjwmacro]

26 minutes ago, abowell97 said:

 

I don't have that photograph either, though I recognise him from one or two of the group photos. 

Not great quality, but I'm pretty sure it's the same man.

 

As for the remarks section, it looks like "Died 1927, HW/3/21674" though it's hard to tell...

 

Regards, 

Alex.

I think you're right Alex that's the same chap for Gnt Harry Laws. 

Also - you are right reference McDonald - died 1927. I thought it was but wanted to check first. Full update to follow. Paul

[pjwmacro]

2370 Gnr Charles Joseph McDonald. No photo yet identified.

 

Charles was born in March 1892 in Edinburgh to John (a police constable b 1851) and Ann (b 1856 nee Corbett), who had married in Nov 1880. John died some time between 1915 and 1927. Charles had an elder brother Murdoch b 1882. In the 1901 census the family were living at 6 Ogilvie Terrace, St. Michael, Edinburgh.

 

Charles got leave from Bisley in Oct 1915 in order to get married. His marriage certificate confirms he was a MMGS Gnr. He married Isabella Henning(?) Lawrie (father James, mother Marrion(?) - her maiden name is illegible). Marriage date 13th Oct 1915.

 

Charles died  14th Aug 1927, in S Leith, nr Edinburgh. His occupation his given as General  Labourer and the cause of death is given as Congestion of the Lung and Heart Failure. Isabella was the informant and her address is given as 364 Leith Walk, S Leith.  I am not yet sure if there were children -or indeed if there might be descendants through Murdoch.

 

We remember them still.

 

Regards, Paul

 

 

 

[pjwmacro]

2398 A/Sjt Philip Bolger. - photo from Walter Patrick's album

 

Address on the back of the MIC is Mrs C Prescott, 12 Bedford Rd, Bootle, Liverpool.  Linking to the 1911 census, same address, this is Philip's mother, Catherine Prescott, b 1854, and, in 1901, listed as a Licensed Victualler. Philip's step father was Henry Prescott, b 1859 in Wigan, a flour miller. In both 1901 and 1911, Philip Bolger is listed as a ships steward, as are, in1901, both his elder brothers. The childrens' father was Edward Joseph Bolger, b 1844 in Dublin, and shown on the 1891 census as deceased. I have not yet found a marriage record for Catherine and Henry Prescott.

 

Philip was born in 1882 in Lancashire, so he was one of the older members of the Battery. His siblings were:

• Edward b 1875
• Elizabeth b 1878
• James J(oseph?) b 1881
• Philip
• Catherine b 1885
• Margaret b 1889

Probate and death records indicate that Philip died 30 Jun 1958, aged 77 leaving his assets to  Alice Gertrude Bolger, widow, William James Bolger, schoolteacher and Michael Francis Bolger, commercial clerk.  I have not yet traced marriage, birth records to confirm these are Philip's sons or whether they have children.

 

Regards, Paul

[david murdoch]

1751 Gunner Edward Dennys Losco Walton. Photo just received from his grandson Nigel Walton.

This studio photo taken in UK late 1915 or early 1916 prior to Battery sailing for India. Hopefully can now pick him out in some of the group photos.

[pjwmacro]

43 minutes ago, david murdoch said:

1751 Gunner Edward Dennys Losco Walton. Photo just received from his grandson Nigel Walton.

This studio photo taken in UK late 1915 or early 1916 prior to Battery sailing for India. Hopefully can now pick him out in some of the group photos.

Well done David.

We will remember them. 

 

And Nigel, welcome, if you are on the forum.

Best wishes Paul 

[david murdoch]

Football team No.3 Section 22nd MMG Battery.

Appears to be Percy Butt holding the ball, and William Frederick Telfer seated front left (right looking at the photo)