Gallipoli brothers

[Guest broadmayne]

Bob,

Some more brothers:

POSSIBLE: Major Richard SAKER, 5Bn, KIA Lone Pine, 26/04/1915, aged 37. Grave: Lone Pine cemetery. His (un-named) brother was stated to be serving in France with the Connaughts, and there is a Captain Frank Harrison Saker, Connaught Rangers, died 30 Oct 1914. Might be worth looking into.

New arrival on this website [please forgive any errors]. I am very interested in this posting, as we know that my children's Great-great-grandfather was Richard Saker; that he had eloped with a young bride to Australia just before the outbreak of War, and immediately enlisted. He was sent to Gallipoli and died there, leaving his young widow and new baby alone in Australia - they eventually managed to return to UK: descendants are Army!

Question therefore is: is "KIA" an Australian regiment? could he have reached Major so swiftly? and is Lone Pine cemetery in Gallipoli? There certainly seems to have been a link with the Connaughts: though we believe that Richard Saker enlisted with the Army in his new country - this could be checked further through the kindness of other post-ers.

[bobpike]

Broadmayne

Firstly welcome to the forum. To answer your questions,

1. KIA stands for 'killed in action.'

2. Yes it is quite possible to achieve the rank of Major (& above) very quickly.

3. Lone Pine is a war cemetery and memorial to the missing (ANZACs) on Gallipoli.

unfortunately I have as yet been unable to prove a link with the Sakers, so if you do I'd be most interested,

Bob

[Aneurin]

Bob

Details of a few more Cardiff brothers I have managed to locate:

Pte Peter Christenson, 1 Welsh, 28/4/15, Menin Gate Memorial (Christensen)

Pte Thomas Patrick Christenson, RMLI, 8/5/15, Helles Memorial

(Relationship confirmed by South Wales Daily News 9/6/15)

Pte Maurice Arthur Fox, 1 RWF, 20/10/14, Menin Gate Memorial

Pte John Edward Fox, 4 SWB, 12/8/15, 7th Field Ambulance Cemetery, Anzac.

I imagine you are aware of Francis and John Dunn, both 5 Welsh and Helles Memorial.

Regards

Aneurin

[bobpike]

Aneurin,

Excellent, thank you, both 'new' to me. I did have the Dunns, though,

Regards,

Bob

[Aneurin]

Bob

A few more Cardiff brothers whom you may not have. I think that's all I have details of, though I'm sure there must be others.

Pte William Henry Jones, 2 SWB, 28/6/15, Twelve Tree Copse Cemetery

L Cpl Bertie Alexander Jones, 14 Welsh, 23/4/18, Warloy-Baillon CCE, France

(Relationship confirmed in South Wales Daily News 16/5/18)

Pte Frederick McNeill, 6 South Lancs, 9/8/15, Helles Memorial

Sgt John McNeill, 1 SWB, 8/9/16, Thiepval Memorial

Pte George Phelps, 8 Welsh, 8/8/15, Helles Memorial

Pte Percy James Phelps, 1 South Staffs, 2/12/18, Montecchio Precalcino CCE, Italy

Pte Gilbert Shepherd, 8 Welsh, 8/8/15, Helles Memorial

Spr Eric Roy Shepherd, RE, 21/10/15, Cathays Cemetery Cardiff (CWGC) (invalided home after being in action)

(Relationship confirmed in South Wales Daily News 17/3/16)

Pte Harry John Tinklin, 4 SWB, 9/8/15, 7th Field Ambulance Cemetery, Anzac

Pte Alexander Tinklin, 1 Welsh Guards, 10/9/16, Thiepval Memorial

Pte Charles Tinklin, 1 Welsh Guards, 27/12/16, Bronfray Farm Military Cemetery, France

(Relationship confirmed in SWDN 1/10/15).

Best wishes for the project

Aneurin

[bobpike]

Aneurin,

This is excellent, thank you. All are new to me and gratefully received,

Regards,

Bob

[Guest broadmayne]

Broadmayne

Firstly welcome to the forum. To answer your questions,

1. KIA stands for 'killed in action.'

2. Yes it is quite possible to achieve the rank of Major (& above) very quickly.

3. Lone Pine is a war cemetery and memorial to the missing (ANZACs) on Gallipoli.

unfortunately I have as yet been unable to prove a link with the Sakers, so if you do I'd be most interested,

Bob

I thought you might be interested to know some additional information about these brothers: Richard Saker's younger brother was Frank [married, no children]. Their elder brother was George [a musician] who survived until the 1960s. No children either.

[bobpike]

Thank you, Broadmayne, interesting. Hopefully it may provoke some information via this Forum

[bobpike]

The up-to-date list is now available to Gallipoli Association members on their website at -

http://gallipoli-association.org/default.asp

Obviously a finite list is an impossibility as new ones are continually coming to light. But if any Pals would like a copy of it as it stands now, please e-mail me,

Bob

[Derek Robertson]

Clutching at straws with this one but:

Name: HAMILTON, ARCHIBALD CHARTERIS

Initials: A C

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Captain

Regiment/Service: King's Own Scottish Borderers

Unit Text: 9th Bn. attd. 1st Bn.

Age: 34

Date of Death: 28/06/1915

Additional information: Native of Hawick. Son of the late Dr. and Mrs. Hamilton, of Beachmount, Arnside, Carnforth, Westmorland; husband of the late Violet Henrietta Scott.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: VII. C. 9.

Cemetery: TWELVE TREE COPSE CEMETERY

Archibald's brother, Dr James Oliver Hamilton, RAMC, died at Hawick in February 1938. His gravestone in the Wellogate Cemetery, Hawick states that he died of illness attributable to service in Great War, 1914-1917.

[bobpike]

Thank you, Derek, although not in thr Great War date range, it is a sobering thought that many must have suffered for years from their experiences, and died as a result of it,

Bob

[Chris Noble]

Hi Bob.

The Wadkin Brothers, 9th West Yorks.

Albert and Arthur.

Kindest regards, Chris.

[Chris Noble]

And Arthur.

From Spofforth, North Yorkshire.

Source is the Harrogate Herald.

[Windflower]

Hi Bob

Just browsing your interesting thread, and wondered if you had these THREE brothers - one killed at Gallipoli, the other two died of wounds (see details) - these men were my Great Great uncles:

1) Albert Henry GARLAND, Private 5261, 2nd Batallion Hampshire Regiment aged 33 years - commemorated on the Helles Memorial, Turkey, and the War Memorial inside Michelmersh Church. SDGW shows him as "Drummer" - Died of Wounds, Gallipoli - 29 Apr 1915. (Medal Roll: GARLAND Albert H, 2nd Hamps R Dmr 5261 and Pte 5261. Theatre of War: (2b) Balkans - entered 25 Apr 1916. Died of Wounds. Medals issued: Victory Medal, British War Medal and 15 Star.) I have Albert's 14-18 Star medal.....

2) Frederick Henry GARLAND, Gunner 35906, 25th Siege Battery, Royal Garrison Artillery. Son of Henry and Kate GARLAND of Stoney Marsh, Michelmersh. Died 16 Sep 1916 at Highfield Hall, aged 22 years. (Cause of death: Gunshot wound of right thigh 29 days. 2. Amputation 20 days. Secondary haemorrhage.)

3) Robert Henry GARLAND - Gunner RMA/16689 HQ (Eastney) Royal Marine Artillery, son of Henry and Kate GARLAND of Stoney Marsh, Michelmersh. Died 28 Sep 1918 at RMA Infirmary, Eastney, aged 17 years. (Cause of death: Pneumonia 44 hours. Cardiac failure.)

Family history legend has it that the loss of three sons broke their mother's heart, which was unsurprising - and Frederick and Robert are laid to rest side-by-side in the churchyard in Michelmersh, Hampshire.

May they rest in peace, and forever remain reunited with their brother Albert.......

Thanks...

Alison Hargreaves, Swindon, UK

[bobpike]

Chris & Alison,

Firstly my apologies for being so slow in replying & thanking you, but I have been in France for 5 weeks.

Both sets are new to me & the Garland so tragic, but all too familiar,

Thank you,

Bob

[Esskay]

Hi Bob - did a search and don't think you have these brothers - 1 in the British Army and 1 in the AIF

RUTTER, CLAUDE ARTHUR GORDON

Rank: Corporal

Regiment/Service: Manchester Regiment

Unit Text: 1st/6th Bn.

Date of Death: 25/05/1915

Service No: 1479

Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL

RUTTER, FREDERICK WILLIAM GABERL (from his file think this should be Gilbert)

Nationality: Australian

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Australian Infantry, A.I.F.

Unit Text: 18th Bn.

Age: 32

Date of Death: 27/08/1915

Service No: 637

Additional information: Son of John Clement Rutter and Elizabeth Ann Rutter, of Combe Martin, Devon, England. Native of Bondi, New South Wales.

Memorial: LONE PINE MEMORIAL

Another brother was:

RUTTER, GEOFFREY

Initials: G R M

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Durham Light Infantry

Unit Text: 1st/6th Bn.

Date of Death: 27/05/1918

Service No: 91727

Memorial: SOISSONS MEMORIAL

I won't repeat the reasoning here that seems to confirm they were brothers - but it came from this thread

 

Funny that the IWGC apparently received information for one of them - but not the others - was the Australian information provided differently do you know??

Cheers

Sue

[bobpike]

Sue,

Thank-you, they are new to me. Interestingly the parents on Frederick's Roll of Honour circular rightly state that no other family member was killed with the AIF, but do not mention two other brothers died with other forces,

Bob

[cbirch]

I am undertaking a project for 'The Gallipoli Association,' listing brothers who were killed in the Great War, at least one of whom either died on Gallipoli or as a result of wounds received there & is buried elsewhere - Malta, Egypt etc.

I am particularly keen for confirmed suggestions in the British Army, Newfoundland Regt, even French Army, as with the excellent AWM records I think I have fairly well researched Australian candidates (as well as NZ) ones.

Surprisingly, perhaps, the total at present is 707 sets of brothers!

Hi,

My Dad had 2 brothers killed in the Great War, Albert Birch, 4th Worcestershire was killed at Gallipoli in 1915, and Jim Birch, 5th batallion, Tank corps, was killed in 1918 at Metern in France.

Memorium.

[bobpike]

Memorium,

Many thanks, they are new to my research. Another tragic story, though,

Thank-you,

Bob

[soldier75]

Bobpike, Gallipoli Project.

Heres another two brothers from Widnes.

Pte Ernest Greenwood

No.36627

1/5th Bn, [TF] The South Lancashire Regiment [PWV]

166th Bde, 55th [West Lancashire] Division.

Born : Ditton, Widnes, Lancashire.

Enlisted : Warrington, Lancashire.

Resided : 10 Greenall Cottages, Ditton, Widnes.

Died of wounds in France on 16th March, 1918, aged 19.

Buried at Gorre British & Indian Cemetery, Plot VI, Row E, Grave 8. Commemorated at St Michael`s C of E Church.

The son of Mrs Edith and the late Thomas Greenwood, he was the brother of Pte Edward Greenwood, 6th South Lancs, killed in action in Gallipoli on 10th August, 1915.#

It is not known when Ernest Greenwood received his fatal injuries, but the battalion were in the Givenchy sector in March, 1918 and on the 6th March the enemy attacked the battalions positions, after a short fierce hand to hand fight with bomb and bayonet, the Germans retreated.##

# WWN 1918.

## Regimental History.

Pte Ernest Greenwood

No.36627

1/5th Bn, [TF] The South Lancashire Regiment [PWV]

166th Bde, 55th [West Lancashire] Division.

Born : Ditton, Widnes, Lancashire.

Enlisted : Warrington, Lancashire.

Resided : 10 Greenall Cottages, Ditton, Widnes.

Died of wounds in France on 16th March, 1918, aged 19.

Buried at Gorre British & Indian Cemetery, Plot VI, Row E, Grave 8. Commemorated at St Michael`s C of E Church.

The son of Mrs Edith and the late Thomas Greenwood, he was the brother of Pte Edward Greenwood, 6th South Lancs, killed in action in Gallipoli on 10th August, 1915.#

It is not known when Ernest Greenwood received his fatal injuries, but the battalion were in the Givenchy sector in March, 1918 and on the 6th March the enemy attacked the battalions positions, after a short fierce hand to hand fight with bomb and bayonet, the Germans retreated.##

# WWN 1918.

## Regimental History.

Regards Soldier75 Harry

[bmbab]

Dear Bob,

I relatively new to the forum and have only just come across this thread. Among the men I've been researching are some brothers who fit your request.

Pte 13843 Raymond JOHNSON 12/West Yorks presumed dead 14 July 1916 and commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial

brother of

Pte 15002 William Herbert JOHNSON 9/West Yorks KiA 7 Aug 1915 and commemorated on the Helles Memorial.

Both were from the Wetherby area. They were members of a very large family (about 13 children) and several other brothers served in the war - but survived. According to a contemporary report 6 children served in the war. Interestingly one of the surviving brothers had the following service number to William Herbert (ie Pte 15003 David Johnson 9/West Yorks) and served in Gallipoli.

Hope these are of interest. If you already knew of them and have any photos I'd be interested to see them.

Regards

Alan

[bobpike]

Soldier 75 Harry & Alan,

Firstly my apologies for not replying & thanking you sooner, but no email notification was forthcoming. The amount of background you provide is fascinating; each story hides a tragedy for so many people.

I was aware of the Greenwoods, but not of the Johnsons; British soldiers because of our limited records are the area of weakness in my study.

Once again thank you and please keep 'em coming,

Kind regards,

Bob

[Anthony Bagshaw]

Bob,

You may have these already but just in case:

Name: CUDWORTH

Initials: S

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Royal Marine Light Infantry

Unit Text: Portsmouth Bn. R.N. Div.

Age: 19

Date of Death: 19/06/1915

Service No: PO/113 (S)

Additional information: Son of Mr. W. and Mrs. E. A. Cudworth, of 18, Sandy Lane, Mansfield, Notts.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: I. C. 65.

Cemetery: EAST MUDROS MILITARY CEMETERY

Name: CUDWORTH

Initials: T W

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Royal Marine Light Infantry

Unit Text: Portsmouth Bn. R.N. Div

Age: 24

Date of Death: 30/05/1915

Service No: PO/114(S)

Additional information: Husband of A. E. Cudworth of 113, New Gladstone St., Mansfield.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: B. 9.

Cemetery: LANCASHIRE LANDING CEMETERY

[bobpike]

Anthony

Thank you very much. I do have them on my list, but it is good to have them referred just in case they've escaped the net!

Kind Regards,

Bob

[bobpike]

I thought it might be time I posted a list of up-dates,

Bob

Barnes Pte. G 7AIF 26.5.15 – Shrapnel Valley Cem 2D17 and Pte. H 5AIF 14-15.8.15 – Lone Pine Mem 24.

Dunn 2Lt. F W M and 2Lt. J R C 5Welch 20.8.15 – Helles Mem 140-4.

Spray Pte. G 6Lincs 9.8.15 – Helles Mem 44-46 and Pte. J 9N&D 9.8.15 – Helles Mem 150-2.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Allen Pte. C A 58AIF 25.9.17 – Menin Gate 29 and Sgt. W W B 9AIF 23.4.15 – Lone Pine Cem L5.

Antcliffe Pte. S 8Welch 8.8.15 – Helles Mem 140-4 and Dvr. H RFA 231MTM Bty 14.7.17 – Bailleul Rd East Cem 1N2.

Birch Pte. W A 4Worcs 19.6.15 – Helles Mem 104-113 and Pte. J M 5Tanks 16.4.18 – Plegsteert Mem 11.

Blackley Pte. J 13AIF 1.5.15 – Lone Pine Mem 36 and Pte. W 22AIF 23.6.15 – Ration Farm MC 1H10.

Boswell Sgt. P 1/6Manch 7.8.15 – Helles Mem 158-70 and 2Lt. A RAF 2.10.18 – Arras Flying Services Mem.

Burrell Dvr. C RHA 23.11.18 – Valenciennes (St. Roch) CC, 2Lt. S 3Mx 19.7.16 – Heilly Station Cem 1G18 and 2Lt. P E 3SWB 21.8.15 – Helles Mem 80.

Christenson Pte. P 1Welch 28.4.15 – Menin Gate 37 and Pte. T P RMLI Plymouth 8.5.15 – Helles Mem 2-7.

Coulson Pte. J H 2AIF 10.8.15 – Lone Pine Cem 3B39 and Rfn. E 1/3NZRB 6.6.18 – Rossignol Wood Cem B16.

Cudworth Pte. S RMLI Portsmouth 19.6.15 – East Mudros MC 1C65 and Pte. T W RMLI Portsmouth 30.5.15 – Lancashire Landing Cem B9.

Curnow Pte. L G 14AIF 11.9.15 – Alexandria (Chatby) War Mem Cem D191 and Spr. R Aust Rlwy Cps 4.10.17 – Menin Rd South Cem 2J8.

Daly Pte. G 51AIF 3.9.16 – Villers-Bretonneux Mem and Pte. J 12AIF 6.7.15 – Lone Pine Mem 35.

Fox Pte. M A 1RWF 20.10.14 – Menin Gate 22 and Pte. J E 4SWB 12.8.15 – 7th. Field Ambulance Cem 4A3.

Gardner Pte. J R 7AIF 25.4-2.5.15 – Lone Pine Mem 28 and Pte. W G 24AIF 30.7.16 – Puchevillers BC 2C35.

Garland Pte. A H 2Hants 29.4.15 – Helles Mem 125-34, Gnr F H 25SB RGA 16.9.16 and Gnr. R H RMA 28.9.18 both – Michelmarsh (St. Mary) Chyd.

Greenwell Pte. T W 5AIF 13.8.15 – Lone Pine Mem 24 and Cpl. J B 7AIF 23.1.18 – Messines Ridge BC 1A42.

Harrison Lce-Cpl. A 14AIF 27.5.15 – East Mudros MC 1F112 and Pte. A E 6AIF 15.10.17 – Menin Gate 7.