Stevie Posted 1 July , 2016 Share Posted 1 July , 2016 19 minutes ago, 17107BM said: On a positive, and British note. How did you do Pal. I didn't... I'm there on July 2nd. The problem is that my new book might not be with me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 2 August , 2016 Share Posted 2 August , 2016 Any new developments in Deacts laws within the UK? Have they made a decision re Belt Fed MG's? My 16 year old son is thinking about saving up for a WW2 German Mg, but I am wondering if there is any point until we know what's happening. Would like to know your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 3 August , 2016 Share Posted 3 August , 2016 I was talking to a gunsmith I know at War & Peace the other week and he told me he has not deactivated a gun since April as he can't get a straight answer from the London Proof House as to what standard to deactivate to !!!!! If the Proof House doesn't know what's going on, nobody does. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 3 August , 2016 Share Posted 3 August , 2016 Hi John, Thanks for the update. It's all a terrible mess! Cheers, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 4 August , 2016 Share Posted 4 August , 2016 Hi, Just saw this on World Wide Arms website- Light, Medium and Heavy Machine Guns are the biggest losers as they now require bolts to be reduced in volume and welded in place so they can no longer be cocked and dry fired. Consequently we will not be offering these unless specifically requested. Here is a link to the page- http://www.worldwidearms.com/new-important-deactivation-news/t10/ I wonder where they got there info from and how accurate it is if the proof house does not know? The more you read, the less clear it becomes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
593jones Posted 4 August , 2016 Share Posted 4 August , 2016 You really couldn't make this up, could you? It's clear no-one knows what's happening, so how World Wide Arms can make that statement is beyond me. I have noticed that LMG's are still being offered for sale on Milweb that aren't to the new standard and still cock and dry fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 5 August , 2016 Share Posted 5 August , 2016 World Wide Arms took a legal opinion and ran with it. It was their business decision to try to get ahead of the game. What is totally bonkers is that in at least one EU country (Belgium) it is legal to own live firearms (pre-1945 dated) without a license (but without having ammo for it). So a deact to the wrong spec could be illegal (though harmless) whilst the bloke next door can legally own the live equivalent firearm. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 30 March , 2017 Share Posted 30 March , 2017 I am told that the word on dealer street is that these regulations will now become effective on May 16th. Can anyone confirm? Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 30 March , 2017 Share Posted 30 March , 2017 2nd May according to this: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2017/399/pdfs/uksi_20170399_en.pdf (page 2) Although how it will be enforced in practice may be another matter. E.g. how on earth could something like a UK 2010 spec deactivated bolt-action rifle be described as 'defectively deactivated'? The letter of the law can't change physical reality. There's scope here for some very strange court cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 30 March , 2017 Share Posted 30 March , 2017 "For the purpose of this section, something is a “defectively deactivated weapon” if— (a)it was at any time a firearm, (b)it has been rendered incapable of discharging any shot, bullet or other missile (and, accordingly, has either ceased to be a firearm or is a firearm only by virtue of the Firearms Act 1982), but (c)it has not been rendered so incapable in a way that meets the technical specifications for the deactivation of the weapon that apply at the time when the weapon is made available for sale or as a gift or (as the case may be) when it is sold or given as a gift. (5)The Secretary of State must publish a document setting out the technical specifications that apply for the purposes of subsection (4)(c) (“the technical specifications document”). Suppose we'll find out when the "technical specifications document" comes out - if it hasn't already. This will just create a collectors' underground network, if you ask me. Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 30 March , 2017 Share Posted 30 March , 2017 The April 2016 deactivation specs can be found here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/deactivated-firearms-implementing-regulation-eu-20152403 As you say; by not making previous specs retroactive for sale or transfer, they have created the perfect conditions for a black market to form. Also note the "at the time" clause above means that there's nothing to stop them moving the goalposts again in the future. It'll be interesting to see what the revised guidance to the police is in light of the above. i.e. what will they actually bother to prosecute in practice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 30 March , 2017 Share Posted 30 March , 2017 I know nothing about this subject, but what with brexit and all, will anyone want to enforce a directive from the nasty EU? Incidentally, I see that, as usual, Britain is proposing to bring in a law which goes far beyond what the EU directive says. Now they don't know what it means (and that is the fault of the EU). This is déjà vu all over again (I shan't go further because the Mods will say its political). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 30 March , 2017 Share Posted 30 March , 2017 10 minutes ago, peregrinvs said: The April 2016 deactivation specs can be found here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/deactivated-firearms-implementing-regulation-eu-20152403 At the moment, I don't believe they form part of the legislation, until compiled into the "technical specifications document" mentioned above. Doubt they will be weaker, yet may be stronger. Of course, all this could be binned in the Great Repeal Act, yet experience tends to suggest that when the authorities acquire a power, they are generally loathe to relinquish it. Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 30 March , 2017 Share Posted 30 March , 2017 The new specs as listed are what is being enshrined into our law. We are merely adopting what the EU dictated last April. Because it is not yet in UK law many dealers have still openly sold "old spec" deacs. Post 2/5 if they continue they will commit a criminal offence in UK law and face prosecution. The loop hole now closing. There was talk of an urgent working group revisiting the EU specs as they are weaker than the last UK ones and difficult to see if done properly in any case. It was proposed that if a countries deactivation specs matched or were better than the new EU ones they would be recognised. Don't know where they are with that and if they still intend to look at it. As ever with all laws, ignorance will be no defence and I for one would not want to be a test case. Irrespective of what guidelines the police are given there will be prosecutions and if dealers / collectors choose to ignore or go down the black market woe betide them and the future for other collectors. Intersting to see the fairs post May and what is on offer. However if you have an old spec bolt action rifle the only problem for you will be if it has a removable mag. You would need work doing if you wanted to sell. Not sure what the law would say if you wanted to sell to a RFD in old spec for them to upgrade??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 30 March , 2017 Share Posted 30 March , 2017 2 hours ago, trenchtrotter said: Irrespective of what guidelines the police are given there will be prosecutions and if dealers / collectors choose to ignore or go down the black market woe betide them and the future for other collectors. What I had in mind was trusted friends passing them among themselves; but of course you're right. It's perhaps another example of where the law drags otherwise law-abiding people within its remit, while the criminal element will blithely ignore it anyway. Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 30 March , 2017 Share Posted 30 March , 2017 2 hours ago, trenchtrotter said: The new specs as listed are what is being enshrined into our law. We are merely adopting what the EU dictated last April. Because it is not yet in UK law many dealers have still openly sold "old spec" deacs. Post 2/5 if they continue they will commit a criminal offence in UK law and face prosecution. The loop hole now closing. T Contrary to what every true Brit believes, the EU doesn't dictate anything, it hasn't the power. If this directive says anything, it has been agreed to by the British government, and is put into British law by them. Unfortunately, they are notorious for 'goldplating' every thing i.e. taking them to the most extreme that is possible. This may well be where some of the problems are coming from (it often is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 30 March , 2017 Share Posted 30 March , 2017 Do sour grapes have a stench ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 30 March , 2017 Share Posted 30 March , 2017 56 minutes ago, Stoppage Drill said: Do sour grapes have a stench ? Not at all. I just know how the British have 'interpreted' everything. After putting up with it for over 30 yearsand being asked 'why?' on umpteen occasions by colleagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 30 March , 2017 Share Posted 30 March , 2017 A couple of months ago I spoke to one of the dealers who negotiated with the Police on this. He said the Police didn't see the need to change the law. The guns used in the Charlie Hebdo attack were not deacts. They were lightly modified live weapons designed for the film industry. A completely different ball game. The whole thing is a waste of time as it will not prevent any criminal or terrorist getting an illegal gun. UK spec deacts are not capable of being reactivated unless you have a full set of replacement pressure bearing parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 30 March , 2017 Share Posted 30 March , 2017 4 hours ago, trenchtrotter said: However if you have an old spec bolt action rifle the only problem for you will be if it has a removable mag. You would need work doing if you wanted to sell. I'm getting my will modified so that I can be buried with my 1940 Bren and its tripod. Might need a bigger coffin though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 31 March , 2017 Share Posted 31 March , 2017 15 hours ago, Gunner Bailey said: A couple of months ago I spoke to one of the dealers who negotiated with the Police on this. He said the Police didn't see the need to change the law. The guns used in the Charlie Hebdo attack were not deacts. They were lightly modified live weapons designed for the film industry. A completely different ball game. The whole thing is a waste of time as it will not prevent any criminal or terrorist getting an illegal gun. UK spec deacts are not capable of being reactivated unless you have a full set of replacement pressure bearing parts. It has npthing to do with actually preventing anything, it's all to do with seeming to do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 31 March , 2017 Share Posted 31 March , 2017 17 hours ago, Gunner Bailey said: The whole thing is a waste of time as it will not prevent any criminal or terrorist getting an illegal gun. UK spec deacts are not capable of being reactivated unless you have a full set of replacement pressure bearing parts. Indeed. The new law is a lazily drafted one size fits all solution. It appears the state is prepared to put you in prison for selling an irreversibly deactivated gun that has been irreversibly deactivated in the wrong irreversible way. Or to use an analogy, it's like being prosecuted for selling a blunt knife because the blade had been blunted with a file rather than a grindstone. As mentioned, there's scope here for some very strange prosecutions if the Police / CPS follow the exact letter of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 31 March , 2017 Share Posted 31 March , 2017 I have a friend who is a gunsmith and he has virtually stopped converting guns to deacts in the last 2 years. He could not get any sense out of the proof houses or the Police. Confusion, divide rule, chaos theory????? Typical EU thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 31 March , 2017 Share Posted 31 March , 2017 I've often wondered what the legal status is of an un-deactivated weapon that has been completely and perfectly sectioned down the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 31 March , 2017 Share Posted 31 March , 2017 Well could be alright or possibly all left! Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now