Pre-War Cloth Shoulder Titles, Rank and Insignia photos.

[Toby Brayley]

Recent eBay purchase. Proficient Sjt of the 2nd (by the inscription on the cup) Volunteer Btn of the DCO Middlesex Regiment. Interesting crossed rifles on the cuff. The use of the Dukes Coronet is obviously connected to the The Duke of Cambridge's Own title.  Fine study of a Lee Metford! 

 

As far as I can recall this is the first time I have seen an example in a photograph. 

 

 

 

[Muerrisch]

When Q Vic pegged out, the Royal Army Clothing Dept ledger records a detailed sketch of the new King's crown and made it very very clear that no other crowns were to be permitted on uniforms.  The portrait might [jam pot cuffs] have predated this thunderous epistle.

Uniform? Who said uniform? Its the army!

[Toby Brayley]

On 25/07/2019 at 17:07, Muerrisch said:

 The portrait might [jam pot cuffs] have predated this thunderous epistle.

Uniform? Who said uniform? Its the army!

Late 1890s I would say.  On the subject of  Dukes Coronets I have also have a Duke of Lancasters Yeomanry  frock with RQMS insignia.  This is a stunning piece. 

Edited 31 July , 2019 by Toby Brayley

[Toby Brayley]

 A pair of new arrivals. Proficient Sjts from a Volunteer Battalion of the South Lancashire's. Once again the clarity is superb. Note the gold braid added to the tunic collar and cuffs. (crossed rifle with crown on his lower right awarded to each Sgt of the best shooting company)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 31 July , 2019 by Toby Brayley

[Toby Brayley]

The second.  

 

 

 

Edited 31 July , 2019 by Toby Brayley

[FROGSMILE]

The gold braid on the first chap indicates a specialist sergeant on the battalion staff with the privilege or entitlement to First Class clothing.  Perhaps orderly room clerk, which was rank-ranged.

Edited 31 July , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

On 25/07/2019 at 17:18, Toby Brayley said:

Late 1890s I would say.  On the subject of  Dukes Coronets I have also have a Duke of Lancasters frock with RQMS insignia.  This is a stunning piece. 

 

 

 

Extraordinary photo, thank you for posting it.  I had no idea that these Ducal Crowns were used for a period.  It was almost certainly a regimental whim and unofficial, as there is no mention in clothing regulations.  Or, going by the shoulder chains, was it a Yeomanry Cavalry arm badge (which were permitted)?

Edited 31 July , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Toby Brayley]

2 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

Extraordinary photo, thank you for posting it.  I had no idea that these Ducal Crowns were used for a period.  It was almost certainly a regimental whim and unofficial, as there is no mention in clothing regulations.  Or, going by the shoulder chains, was it a Yeomanry Cavalry arm badge (which were permitted)?

 

 

Appologies, It is D. O.L Yeomanry (I missed that out of the post and have amended), so a permitted badge.  

[FROGSMILE]

1 minute ago, Toby Brayley said:

 

 

Appologies, It is D. O.L Yeomanry (I missed that out of the post and have amended), so a permitted badge.  

 

Thank you for clarifying.  Lovely to see nonetheless.

[Toby Brayley]

From a close friends personal collection. 

 

 

[Toby Brayley]

A further addition of colour to the thread.  A recent purchase; A tunic of a Colour Serjeant of the 1st Volunteer Battalion, the Royal Welsh Fusiliers.  Complete with 7 Efficiency Stars for a minimum of 35 years service and the distinct 5 ribboned flash on the rear.

One of the finest victorian era volunteer tunics I have seen and pride of my collection!  The chevrons, stars and Colour Sjts badge are all of silver bullion. 

 

 

 

Edited 1 August , 2019 by Toby Brayley

[FROGSMILE]

Absolutely superb images that sent a thrill of recognition (and envy) right through me.  Thank you for posting.  An amazing state of preservation for a tunic so old!

Edited 2 August , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Toby Brayley]

I thought you might like that! 

[Muerrisch]

Any labels to date it please?

[Toby Brayley]

16 minutes ago, Muerrisch said:

Any labels to date it please?

 

Nothing at all sadly, privately tailored tunic with the remains of a paper label with Colour Serj on it. Trying to get a fixed date for when the flash was re-introduced  for ORs (1900?) The WF rather than RWF on shoulder straps may provided some clue. 

[Muerrisch]

IF [big IF] the VF followed the regulars at all closely it is pre 1902 because collar braid moved briefly from bottom to top that year before returning in 1912.

 

The QV crown suggests that this is correct.

As for WF versus RWF I ought to know. I bet Frogsmile knoweth.

[FROGSMILE]

The titles changed from WF to RWF in 1898, but the standard order was for existing stocks to be worn out, so it would have been a phased process for the change to take place.  

Notice the 7-points to the flame, which was the standard format for full dress shoulder titles of all the fusilier regiments, not just RWF.  

For a great many years the RWF regular battalions also wore the exact same format of woven thread grenade as a collar badge, even after the other fusilier regiments had adopted gilding metal grenades.  However, they had fallen into line before WW1.

 

Edited 5 August , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Toby Brayley]

Brilliant thank you! 

[FROGSMILE]

22 minutes ago, Toby Brayley said:

Brilliant thank you! 

 

Glad it’s of interest.  The image shows how the title was added to undress frocks via a tapered patch stitched directly onto the shoulder straps.  This is the sort of job given to boy trainees in the Sergeant, Master Tailor’s workshop.  If it wasn’t neat enough they were made to unpick the threads and do it again until he was satisfied!

Edited 5 August , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Toby Brayley]

Cyclist of the 5th West Middlesex Rifle Volunteers c1900. The usual fantastic detail here; on the hi res scan you can even make out the writing on the tyres!  The cyclist badge is just visible. 

 

 

[Dragoon]

5 hours ago, Toby Brayley said:

Cyclist of the 5th West Middlesex Rifle Volunteers c1900. The usual fantastic detail here; on the hi res scan you can even make out the writing on the tyres!  The cyclist badge is just visible. 

 

 

Super photo!

May I ask what the shoulder title says, is it '5 M'? And is that a blackened wheel arm badge?

 

Cheers

Chris

 

[Muerrisch]

Not much point because his musketry badge is not so.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Dragoon said:

Super photo!

May I ask what the shoulder title says, is it '5 M'? And is that a blackened wheel arm badge?

 

Cheers

Chris

 

 

It says 5 above Mx, Chris, and yes it’s a black cycle wheel indicating his specialism, as mentioned by Toby above.

Edited 5 August , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[Dragoon]

9 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

It says 5 above Mx, Chris, and yes it’s a black cycle wheel indicating his specialism, as mentioned by Toby above.

Ah! Mx, thank you FROGSMILE.

 

Chris

[Toby Brayley]

Nothing too exciting, but a welcome gift from a friend.  Grenadier Guard with QSA, KSA with crossed flags and crossed rifles.