Toby Brayley Posted 9 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 9 July , 2019 (edited) Glass slide, TF Norfolks, nice array of insignia here...and a beard! Edited 9 July , 2019 by Toby Brayley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 July , 2019 Share Posted 9 July , 2019 Super picture of a TF Instructor of Musketry with his unique 4-bars and combined crossed rifles with (early pattern) conjoined crown. I wonder how the colour sergeant got away with his beard given that he’s not wearing pioneers crossed axes. Excused shaving via a skin condition presumably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 10 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: Super picture of a TF Instructor of Musketry with his unique 4-bars and combined crossed rifles with (early pattern) conjoined crown. I thought you might like that! The sole reason I purchase the original glass plate. Latest acquisition crossed swords. Given the location and the dark collar (rather than white of the NSY) I am going with West Somerset Yeomanry for this chap. Edited 10 July , 2019 by Toby Brayley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 July , 2019 Share Posted 10 July , 2019 (edited) It seems that neither is the case, Toby, according to our mutual friend at uniformology.com, by whose courtesy the images are enclosed. I wonder if it’s an adjacent County. Apart from collar and cuff buttons the North Somerset Yeomanry is the closest in appearance and the WSY had very distinctive, jam-pot cuffs. Perhaps there was a pattern change for NSY. Edited 10 July , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 10 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2019 (edited) Thank you, i was torn between the two. Perhaps a local Troop Variation of the NSY as only a few records survive and there was Troop variation in the early uniforms. Certianly very close to the NSY. The location and style is surely more than coincidence? Regards Toby Edited 10 July , 2019 by Toby Brayley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 July , 2019 Share Posted 10 July , 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Toby Brayley said: Thank you, i was torn between the two. Perhaps a local Troop Variation of the NSY as only a few records survive and there was Troop variation in the early uniforms. Certianly very close to the NSY. The location and style is surely more than coincidence? Regards Toby Yes, I agree, it seems most likely to be a Troop variation of the NSY. I’ve no doubt that Bruce will be interested to see the photo. Edited 10 July , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1418 Posted 11 July , 2019 Share Posted 11 July , 2019 On 09/07/2019 at 18:56, FROGSMILE said: Super picture of a TF Instructor of Musketry with his unique 4-bars and combined crossed rifles with (early pattern) conjoined crown. I wonder how the colour sergeant got away with his beard given that he’s not wearing pioneers crossed axes. Excused shaving via a skin condition presumably. Hi, I'm not sure he has a beard, there is a substantial moustache going on but looking at the others in the image it may just be the shadow when the picture was taken as its similar to the chap in the centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 11 July , 2019 Share Posted 11 July , 2019 4 hours ago, Dave1418 said: Hi, I'm not sure he has a beard, there is a substantial moustache going on but looking at the others in the image it may just be the shadow when the picture was taken as its similar to the chap in the centre. The Instructor of musketry is of course a permanent staff regular soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 11 July , 2019 Share Posted 11 July , 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Dave1418 said: Hi, I'm not sure he has a beard, there is a substantial moustache going on but looking at the others in the image it may just be the shadow when the picture was taken as its similar to the chap in the centre. Having spent almost 40-years around British soldiers in uniform, including the pioneer sergeant of infantry battalions, I am fairly confident that the TF Colour Sergeant at far left in the photo has a beard, Dave. It’s not just the admittedly strange black ring around his lower face, but the nature of what seems a distinctly hairy chin. That said, it’s not impossible that someone has done a recent photo-shop job on the image, although that seems unlikely to me. Simple shadows in the photo don’t seem an adequate explanation given the extent of the masking of the lower face. Edited 11 July , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Black Posted 12 July , 2019 Share Posted 12 July , 2019 14 hours ago, Dave1418 said: Hi, I'm not sure he has a beard, there is a substantial moustache going on but looking at the others in the image it may just be the shadow when the picture was taken as its similar to the chap in the centre. I agree Dave, if that's any consolation? Cheers, Derek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 12 July , 2019 Share Posted 12 July , 2019 16 hours ago, Muerrisch said: The Instructor of musketry is of course a permanent staff regular soldier. Looking at the man far left again, does that seem to you to be a star above his 3-stripes? I think I’ve probably mistaken an efficiency star for a crown, thus making him a sergeant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 12 July , 2019 Share Posted 12 July , 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Derek Black said: I agree Dave, if that's any consolation? Cheers, Derek. I agree that he’s clean shaven on the sides, as with the other men. It’s just the chin below the lower lip that seems difficult to answer away. It made me think of a Van-Dyke, albeit it does seem an odd style for a SNCO to have at that time, even for an auxiliary. Edited 12 July , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 12 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 12 July , 2019 I'd agree it's not a full beard or even a large beard but certainly unusual. The image is from a glass negative, that I have photographed on a light box and reversed, certianly no Photoshoping or contemporary altering. I would also agree its a Prof Star rather than a crown on the chap on the left making him a Sjt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 12 July , 2019 Share Posted 12 July , 2019 4 hours ago, Toby Brayley said: I'd agree it's not a full beard or even a large beard but certainly unusual. The image is from a glass negative, that I have photographed on a light box and reversed, certianly no Photoshoping or contemporary altering. I would also agree its a Prof Star rather than a crown on the chap on the left making him a Sjt. Thanks, Toby, the hirsute look is certainly a conundrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 12 July , 2019 Share Posted 12 July , 2019 He might simply be the pioneer sergeant without appointment badge .......as we know, the auxilliary arms played fast and loose. As witness here the "incorrect" wearing of crown above proficiency, rather than below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 12 July , 2019 Share Posted 12 July , 2019 2 minutes ago, Muerrisch said: He might simply be the pioneer sergeant without appointment badge .......as we know, the auxilliary arms played fast and loose. As witness here the "incorrect" wearing of crown above proficiency, rather than below. Yes, I did wonder if that might be the case. There seem to have been a number of units that struggled with the idea of putting the proficiency star ‘above’ the symbol of the Sovereign, as you have pointed out before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 15 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 15 July , 2019 (edited) We have discussed "Arm of Service" piped shoulder straps many times. I recently was able to handle a sealed pattern of the Army Pay Department . Officers (obviously, being APD) Great Coat Strap. Interesting late SP of June 1910 and declared obsolete in February 1920. Edited 15 July , 2019 by Toby Brayley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 15 July , 2019 Share Posted 15 July , 2019 Very interesting Toby, thanks for posting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 15 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 15 July , 2019 To complement the above, sealed patterns of the detachable shoulder straps for the Corps of Military Police (Military Mounted Police and Military Foot Police). A bit of an oddity as they are straps for the officers Great Coat. At this stage the Officers of the Military Police retained their parent unit insignia and uniform. They appear in the officers dress regs but on their own! It was not until 1914 the the NCOs of the Military Police adopted the Service Dress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 24 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 24 July , 2019 Very chuffed to finally add a 4th VB Hants title to my collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 24 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 24 July , 2019 (edited) I also picked up what I believe is an uncut West Riding title. Note the distinct G, the same as in the contemporary picture. The font size is also correct. Edited 24 July , 2019 by Toby Brayley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 24 July , 2019 Share Posted 24 July , 2019 Superb condition ST and a great photo to match, Toby. Thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jools mckenna Posted 24 July , 2019 Share Posted 24 July , 2019 Hello, could anyone tell me what the 2 men, sitting down in the middle, trouser's mean? Some sort of Calvary or Yeomanry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58 Div Mule Posted 24 July , 2019 Share Posted 24 July , 2019 11 hours ago, Toby Brayley said: I also picked up what I believe is an uncut West Riding title. Note the distinct G, the same as in the contemporary picture. The font size is also correct. Great photo. At first I thought it was a large horse but looking at the rifle I realise it's a short soldier! 58 DM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 25 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 25 July , 2019 (edited) Yes, he is not much taller than the SMLE! The rifle "clip" is like nothing I have ever seen before! Edited 25 July , 2019 by Toby Brayley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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