phil andrade Posted 12 May , 2014 Share Posted 12 May , 2014 Max Hastings has all the hallmarks of a slapper ! Edit : Incidentally, The Old Slapper's back on the warpath : he wrote a leading article for The Sunday Times Review section ( yesterday), reiterating his argument that the Great War's image is too negative. Phil (PJA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth505 Posted 18 May , 2014 Share Posted 18 May , 2014 Max Hastings has all the hallmarks of a slapper ! Phil (PJA)Oh the colorful coloquialisms... Could you really mean someone dancing during prohibition? If not, then what is a ... Slapper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 18 May , 2014 Share Posted 18 May , 2014 On this side of the Pond, a Slapper is a lady of, shall we say, loose morals, possibly with rather too much make-up ("slap") on. On-topic, I am about half way through the book and beginning to enjoy it less and less. It feels like I'm being hit with a lump of lead pipe in a sock. And nothing seems to be referenced, so as far as I can tell the whole thing could be made up. In short it's a book written by a master journalist ... not by an historian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 20 May , 2014 Share Posted 20 May , 2014 Can I completely retract Post 171, please?I am about half way through and very close to giving up: it really is like being beaten round the head by someone. All the usual Hastings tricks (faults): bombastic, lacking references, anecdotal with no means of proving or referencing the anecdotes, extremely broad brush, opinonated to the point of diatribe ... I'm glad I got it half price. No, actually, I'm annoyed I paid that much for it. I should have stuck to my original opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 20 May , 2014 Share Posted 20 May , 2014 In a desperate attempt to get this thread on topic before it gets consigned to the dustbin of history, am I alone in feeling as I do? (About Sir Max's book, that is ... leave Mrs Broomfield and her sister out of this). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 21 May , 2014 Share Posted 21 May , 2014 Steven, you are not alone... As mentioned earlier, I consigned my copy (not Mrs Broomfield and her sister, I hasten to add) to the hotel dustbin when travelling back to UK recently. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 21 May , 2014 Share Posted 21 May , 2014 Interesting the way this thread has developed. I had a copy for last Christmas and eventually started reading it and actually found it quite absorbing for a while. A neighbour was also a couple of chapters ahead of me with a copy of his own and we swapped points of interest on & off. Several weeks ago, I gave up on the book somewhat distracted by other material but didn't give this too much thought. The neighbour referred to, recently admitted he had similarly given up on his book because in his own words he found it far "too depressing to read." David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 21 May , 2014 Share Posted 21 May , 2014 I have a copy but must admit it has not reached the top of the pile. However whatever the views on this book, to describe him as a slapper and suggest that because he is a journalist it discounts the value of much good h based military histories he has written. He is a classic example of a populist, opinionated, non military history academic, who writes books than many experts and non experts alike find appealing and readable. Whatever else Falklands Max may be he is no 'slapper'. It's a term which applies to the likes of Clarke and Laffin, sloppy lazy and always 'up for it' when there was a war book to be banged out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulgranger Posted 21 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2014 Max Hastings writing reminds me a little of Bruce Catton's various American Civil War histories, though he doesn't turn such memorable phrases, and Rick Atkinson's recent works on the American involvement in WW2. Yes, he is a populist historian, not afraid to make some critical remarks about the Western Allies efforts in Europe and Asia during WW2, and I find him a good read. But, of course, as I suggested when I started this thread, he doesn't appeal to everyone, I'm part way through the book, and I'm enjoying it so far. I put 'Sleepwalkers' to one side, as I found that rather heavy going, though eminently more 'historical' than 'journalistic'. I will probably go back to it when I have more time to concentrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 21 May , 2014 Share Posted 21 May , 2014 Two chapters in and enjoying the read so far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War13Memorial Posted 22 May , 2014 Share Posted 22 May , 2014 Just got the book yesterday and had a quick look at page 212, covering my interest. His account of Capt Theodore Wright of the Royal Engineers is a bit lenient of the truth and not accurate. Makes me wonder, is the rest the same ? Billy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 22 May , 2014 Share Posted 22 May , 2014 His coverage of Nery (admittedly a very small action, but not insignificant) is pretty economical with the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth505 Posted 22 May , 2014 Share Posted 22 May , 2014 You'll describing what I think of as Graduate Student Syndrome. I think many books are created with the creators not expecting people to read more than 100 pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 I've just finished this, having started it with mixed feelings after reading this thread, but I think that all in all it's not too bad at all. His style grates on me from time to time, as well as his rather sweeping views on whether something was "plausible" or not, not to mention the faults of detail that others have pointed out, but he covers a broad canvas pretty well. Anyone taking this up knowing little about the war and its beginnings will have learned a lot by the end of the book. That said, I haven't read any of his other books and am unlikely to, though mainly because the subjects he covers interest me less. Cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Oh gosh - somebody has bought me this for my birthday - I am going to have read it now ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 Only if you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 26 June , 2014 Share Posted 26 June , 2014 I will read it with pencil and Forum notes on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 21 August , 2014 Share Posted 21 August , 2014 I have capitulated in order to read what all the fuss is about. Spamazon keeps telling me I should. There are a staggering 252 reviews with an average rating of 4.4. No other books covering this period come anywhere close in terms of number of reviews which supports the idea of his dominance in 'popular' histories of the war. Clark (Sleepwalkers) 178 reviews, Paxman (Great Britain's Great War) 121 reviews, by comparison. Is there any way of finding out how many copies have been sold? Do publishers provide this data? Interestingly the hardcover price appears to have dropped from £30.00 to £11.51 (incl post and packaging). To save you the calculation that is a -62% drop in price since publication. The paperback was only £3.85 which seems a low risk strategy. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulgranger Posted 21 August , 2014 Author Share Posted 21 August , 2014 I'll be interested in your comments, but I think you'll find it lacking in detail, and short on source attribution, and you were wise to wait for the price to go down, though I have seen it cheaper, and got the Kindle edition for 99p! I think it is 'a good read', though, and he doesn't just concentrate on the UK contribution, but horses for courses, and we are all different in our likes and dislikes. I've just finished Mallinson's 'Fight the Good Fight', which I enjoyed, but shall have to revisit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 21 August , 2014 Share Posted 21 August , 2014 I'll be interested in your comments, but I think you'll find it lacking in detail, and short on source attribution, and you were wise to wait for the price to go down, though I have seen it cheaper, and got the Kindle edition for 99p! I think it is 'a good read', though, and he doesn't just concentrate on the UK contribution, but horses for courses, and we are all different in our likes and dislikes. I've just finished Mallinson's 'Fight the Good Fight', which I enjoyed, but shall have to revisit. My expectations are very low but I want to see what the most popular book on this period is saying. I have read a dozen reviews on this book in various newspapers and journals, and there is a fairly wide gulf in opinions. The more academic the reviewer the more critical they are. It appears (like many other recent books) to claim to break new ground. I sincerely doubt this is the case based on the more acerbic critics' comments. I suspect this is the publisher's clever way of popularising or recycling views already established in more academic circles and giving the impression they are the author's original thoughts. More than one reviewer has drawn comparions between Hasting's views and those of earlier authors. I note the distinct lack of end-notes or foot-notes and the paucity of references. This is usually a good indication that I am unlikely to get to the end of the book. We shall see. The marketing campaign appears to have been faultlessly executed with positively glowing reviews in from most of the mass-market newspapers. We also had the accompanying TV advert programme where Sir Max appeared to present well understood views as some kind of radical reassessment. If sales are any measure he appears to be winning the so-called Battle of the Historians in the field of popular histories. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 21 August , 2014 Share Posted 21 August , 2014 . I suspect this is the publisher's clever way of popularising or recycling views already established in more academic circles and giving the impression they are the author's original thoughts. More than one reviewer has drawn comparions between Hasting's views and those of earlier authors. How many "new/original" thoughts and views can possibly be left ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 21 August , 2014 Share Posted 21 August , 2014 How many "new/original" thoughts and views can possibly be left ? On 1914, not many as it is rather a crowded space.... which might make some of the books rather pointless as the ground has been covered already. A book on the historiography of 1914 might have been more interesting to see how perceptions and interpretations have changed over the years... although there are some interesting books that already touch on this. ..I do think there are areas that are still open to new/original thought - Morton-Jack's book on the Indian Army on the Western Front is a subject that has not been adequately covered since Merewether and Smith in 1918. I think there are plenty of areas open to new or original thought. Morton-Jack's book fills an enormous gap in my view. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidfegga Posted 22 August , 2014 Share Posted 22 August , 2014 Just finished reading it, and have to say I quite enjoyed it. I understand that it's probably not that "scholarly" with it's lack of references etc, but I find sometimes that's not a bad thing. It was a good "read" nonetheless. Have just re- read "The Guns of August" , and "The Sword bearers" by Correlli Barnett, both fifty years old now, and might be considered out of date by some, but what great writing! Some modern authors should take note. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 22 August , 2014 Share Posted 22 August , 2014 Martin, I must disagree with your comment that the Indian Army is not "a subject that has not been adequately covered since Merewether and Smith in 1918" Gordon Corrigan's book is certainly the equal if not better that that by Morton-Jack in my view and much more elegantly written. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 22 August , 2014 Share Posted 22 August , 2014 Martin, I must disagree with your comment that the Indian Army is not "a subject that has not been adequately covered since Merewether and Smith in 1918" Gordon Corrigan's book is certainly the equal if not better that that by Morton-Jack in my view and much more elegantly written. David We'll have to agree to disagree : ) I don't think Corrigan's book comes close to the level of detail in Morton-Jack's book. I know many people have a high regard for the book, but I thought there were a few small errors which always puts me on the back foot. It is a good read and very interesting, but for me the scope was significantly more narrow than Morton-Jack's book and I thought Morton-Jack's book had significantly more analysis viz strengths, weaknesses and the historical background that shaped the Indian Corps. I have a lot of interest in the Indian Army and long family connections with various Indian Army units, so it is an area where I have dug reasonably deeply. In a previous life I served in the same Brigade as Corrigan. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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