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museumtom

I need your help again lads and lassies.

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Theletterwriter

Tom / Daggers

I had checked the SNWM but nothing was found. The site has garnered its information from the CWGC so if there was no record on the CWGC site, it was highly unlikely that the SNWM would have something. I did check however!!

Douglas

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IPT

The address of 18 Morningside Gardens, Edinburgh does exist.

Can anyone see who was living there in 1911?

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daggers

This is like a game of Mornington Crescent!

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Theletterwriter

IPT

Whoever it was, it does not appear to have been the Morter family. As the son's middle name was Holland, and his mother's forename was Grace, I have been trying to see if there is a Grace Holland to maybe give us a route into the family line but so far, it is head against a brick wall. It was always a bit of a long shot but you never know. I cannot find the father's birth records in Scotland so it would appear that he was not born in Scotland. Assuming the father was not born overseas, can anyone trace the father's birth in the rest of the UK?

Douglas

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IPT

Oh Daggers...... Putney Bridge.

I've sent an email to the webmaster of the Birkenhead Institute website in an effort to confirm that Stanley Holland Morter was ever a pupil at the school.

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museumtom

Great work lads, I can see this mystery being solved with all these positive waves.

Kind regards.

Tom.

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IPT

I'm not so sure, Tom. I don't think either of them ever existed.

"Always with the negative waves" - Donald Sutherland, Kelly's Heroes.

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archangel9

I'm not so sure, Tom. I don't think either of them ever existed.

Agreed!

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IPT

IPT

Whoever it was, it does not appear to have been the Morter family. As the son's middle name was Holland, and his mother's forename was Grace, I have been trying to see if there is a Grace Holland to maybe give us a route into the family line but so far, it is head against a brick wall

Douglas

Hi Douglas,

Yes, I was looking at that possibility too. However, i've just managed to get a better look at the father's death notice in the Liverpool Echo and he is described as Captain Percy Holland Morter.

So odd, because someone paid to insert that in the newspaper!

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kathleen donaldson

No Probate Daggers

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museumtom

The mystery deepens. I had thought as they were remembered in Dublin based newspaper they may have had an Irish connection in there.

Cheers.

Tom.

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Theletterwriter

Life seemed so simple until Tom posted this thread!! Still, we are here to try and resolve this puzzling and fascinating mystery.

Douglas

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mattgibbs

If the father was an officer casualty in the Gordons in 1914 overseas then he could only have been 1st or 2nd Battalion. IN 1914/14 its wider in scope of course. The cwgc wouldn't be any help if you've stumbled on a non commemoration of course ;)

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spof

The June 1914 Quarterly Army List index shows: Mort, Mortimer, Mortimore, Mortis, Mortlock, Morton, Morton-Marshall and Mort-Radford. THe December 1914 edition shows the same names and the fatehr is not listed in hte Casualties section either.

These don't coverthe TF though.

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kathleen donaldson

I have spent half the moring trying to locate this family using all variations of the Surname Morter/Mortar/Morters etc nothing is coming up.

I have this obituary from the Liverpool Echo and I cant find nothing for him.

Dodd Herbert 4th August 1916 Liverpool Echo Husband of Lillian Grayson Dodd (nee Callender) son of A.J. Dodd London No Son of A.J. Dodd London KIA 32 years

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kathleen donaldson

Capt P H MORTER Gordon Highlanders

The above is recorded on Southport Civic War Memorial. Is there a book published for Southport?

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museumtom

Thanks Douglas, IPT, Archangel, Matt , Kathy and SPOF I appreciate your dedication and persistance

Kathy, a great find. Well done. Keep up the great work.

Kind regards.

Tom.

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daggers

Kathy's find led me to finding that Bruce Hubbard has or had a book on the Southport memorial. He is not accepting pms at present, but if he reads this, perhaps he could have a look for anything about Capt. Morter.

D

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Stephen Nulty

The father's death notice from Liverpool Echo, 2nd January 1915, reveals a link to Birkdale (& therefore Southport)

post-1356-0-05068900-1351958321_thumb.pn

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Old Owl

Hi All,

I have checked the Army List for October 1914 and there is no officer with this name and initials in the Gordon Highlanders or in any other regiment for that matter. I have also checked the April 1915 Army List and again there is no officer in the list with this surname and initials which match his son, in any regiment. I have also checked many other sources including the Services of Boer War Officers--just in case the father had served as an officer during this period.

Conclusion: The surname and christian names are fabricated or have been deliberately altered to disguise the men involved. It is hard to see a reason for this but I can think of no other logical reason for this anomaly.

PS It is of course possible that the regiments are also false and possibly even their ranks. If the dates of death are correct? then I suppose in theory it should be possible to trace these two men--but where to start is another matter!! I suppose that it is possibly an elaborate hoax? but again I cannot think of a good reason for this.

Robert

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daggers

Photo fit or similar was not invented then...

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kathleen donaldson

I have a copy of the 1911 Gores Directory and the only Morter recorded is:

Morter and Dobie Architects and Surveyors, 36, The Temple, Dale Street

Morter S. Pelman Architect, (Morter & Dobie) Birkenhead Road, Meols.

I have followed this family and I can't make any connection to Percy Holland and Stanley Holland Morter.

I have also exhausted the birth, marriage and death records for Scotland.

Very elusive whoever they are.

I'll have a look in somemore Directories to-morrow at Liverpool.

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Old Owl

Photo fit or similar was not invented then...

The picture in the paper must have been someone, just a pity that he was in mufti!!!---this is extremely frustrating!!

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Old Owl

I have a copy of the 1911 Gores Directory and the only Morter recorded is:

Morter and Dobie Architects and Surveyors, 36, The Temple, Dale Street

Morter S. Pelman Architect, (Morter & Dobie) Birkenhead Road, Meols.

I have followed this family and I can't make any connection to Percy Holland and Stanley Holland Morter.

I have also exhausted the birth, marriage and death records for Scotland.

Very elusive whoever they are.

I'll have a look in somemore Directories to-morrow at Liverpool.

Hi Kathy,

Someone has been either very clever here, or the answer is staring us all in the face!! I just can't quite grasp what is going (or was going!) on with this anomally.

Totally Puzzled!!

Robert

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kathleen donaldson

I have just seached the Liverpool Mercury at Newspapers online. and The only Morter is a Captain Sidney Pelman Morter of the 4th Lancashire Artillery Volunteers. He did serve in WW1 and was Gazetted thats the only Morter I can find with Army connections for WW!

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