Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

museumtom

I need your help again lads and lassies.

Recommended Posts

rolt968
2 minutes ago, museumtom said:

Thank you Rolt, where did you find his Canadian records please?

 Kind regards.

 Tom.

The Library and Archives of Canada. Not all of the records have been digitised yet, but the Cs have.

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/personnel-records.aspx

In theory there should be a circumstances of death document which is a single form available on ancestry, but sometimes there aren't for men who started as missing.

RM

 

Although buried in Ireland, could B D Parkinson-Cumine have died in hospital in Scotland or England and Wales?

I will check the scotlandspeople index.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rolt968

Circumstances of Death CEF (ancestry): On or since 24/04/1915: Previously reported missing, now for official purposes presumed to have died.

Vicinity of St Julian.

 

RM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ss002d6252

The circumstances of death records states he was missing, since presumed dead - which is odd if he was later identified (I'd have expected the record to have been updated)
 

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/mass-digitized-archives/circumstances-death-registers/Pages/item.aspx?PageID=46045

 

Craig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
museumtom

Thanks Craig!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rolt968
3 hours ago, rolt968 said:

Pte. Butler Parkinson Cumine, wounded 17 April 1915; missing 13 May 1915; presumed dead 26 (or 24) April 1916. (Canadian Soldier's record).

Are the first two the same event, I wonder?

RM

 

Edit: There might be a Red Cross record.

There are three file cards here:

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Search/#/3/2/224/310117/British and Commonwealth/Military/Cumine

Look under "Cumming (Canadians). They have lumped all the various spellings together, but he is listed under the correct spelling.

RM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rolt968

Didn't it take an unusually long time to find that B P Cumine was missing not wounded (and apparently in hospital)?

RM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ss002d6252
3 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

Didn't it take an unusually long time to find that B P Cumine was missing not wounded (and apparently in hospital)?

RM

6 month to a 1 year was about standard where the man was declared missing in British Army Records so I'd imagine the Canadians were very similar - The process is often appears to be shortened where proof of death came to light before the period had passed. More likely if the first two incidents are different.

Craig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
museumtom

Thanks for the link Craig and RM, yes indeed it did take a long time to presume his death, sure who knows what was going at the time?

I started the morning with this soldier and for the life of me I could get past it and continue with someone else, maybe I should try harder. Its like being stuck in mud and not being able to get out. I think the way forward is to await the reply of the Vicar. I will start a new name now, fingers crossed I get a reply.

  Again lads, what can I say? You have always been there for me, for which I am most thankful. If I can help with Irishmen or on FMP it will be done immediately.

Thank you once again for your time, patience, help and endurance!

Kindest regards.

 Tom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
museumtom

I have not looked at this yet, lets all look at it together...

1.jpg

Feck it thought there would be more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ss002d6252
1 minute ago, museumtom said:

I have not looked at this yet, lets all look at it together...

1.jpg

Just me or am I missing the bit giving the son's death and burial here ?

Craig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
museumtom

That just leaves the grave registers, whats the chances of getting a look at them?

 

Yep, the son is not there.

That's where he has to be lads, it has to be.

Edited by museumtom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ss002d6252
Just now, museumtom said:

That just leaves the grave registers, whats the changes of getting a look at them?

 

Yep, the son is not there.

 

I suppose it depends if they still have them or if they've been lodged elsewhere. I suspect it's the only option left to try.

Craig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
helpjpl
museumtom

Good man JP, I see lots of news in there. Thank you very much indeed.

Kind regards.

 Tom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
helpjpl

The Canadians suffered terrible casualties at St Julien on 24 April 1915. Here's a list of those commemorated on the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial.  

Butler Cumine was 7th Battalion.

https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?regiment=Canadian%2BInfantry&cemetery=Ypres%2B(Menin%2BGate)%2BMemorial&exactDate=24-04-1915

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Ypres

 

JP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rolt968

I am beginning to have a nasty feeling that someone has confused father and son.

Having said that I would have expected the rector's wife to be mentioned on the gravestone. I wonder if there is anything on the back.

 

RM

 

Edit: More confusion G G Parkinson-Cumine died in 1916. There is no doubt the gravestone says 1918! Every time I get back on to this thread there is more confusion!

 

Edited by rolt968

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rolt968
2 hours ago, museumtom said:

Thanks for the link Craig and RM, yes indeed it did take a long time to presume his death, sure who knows what was going at the time?

I started the morning with this soldier and for the life of me I could get past it and continue with someone else, maybe I should try harder. Its like being stuck in mud and not being able to get out. I think the way forward is to await the reply of the Vicar. I will start a new name now, fingers crossed I get a reply.

  Again lads, what can I say? You have always been there for me, for which I am most thankful. If I can help with Irishmen or on FMP it will be done immediately.

Thank you once again for your time, patience, help and endurance!

Kindest regards.

 Tom.

 

I have been assuming that the first two incidents were the same - wounded and missing and that he was believed to be wounded and in hospital (newspaper reports) and that it took some time to find out that he was actually missing.

RM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rolt968

Apologies if we have got this already:

Benjamin Deane Parkinson-Cumine of Killough, Downpatrick, County Down died at Downshire Hospital, Downpatrick on 26 May 1964. Probate to Florence Mary Parkinson-Cumine, widow. (English Probate register - ancestry).

 

RM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
museumtom

Hello Rolt, yes that's the brother. He became a Major in the MGC, District Inspector in the RIC in the 1920's. He survived the war.

 Kind regards.

 Tom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rolt968
10 minutes ago, museumtom said:

Hello Rolt, yes that's the brother. He became a Major in the MGC, District Inspector in the RIC in the 1920's. He survived the war.

 Kind regards.

 Tom.

 

I think he was at one time a medical student pre WW1. Benjamin D Parkinson-Cumine, 1st Year Medical Student, Dublin University (UK, Medical and Dental Students Register 1910 (ancestry)

 

RM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
museumtom

Good one Rolt, I did not see that.

 Kind regards.

 Tom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
helpjpl

Please let us know if the vicar of St Comgall's Church gets back to you.

 

As things stand, there is no evidence that Butler Cumine's body was recovered from the battlefield at St Julien and returned to Ireland because his father pulled some strings #142.

 

The newspaper item in #143, dated February 1918, states - 'A brother of this officer, who was in the Canadians, has been missing for a considerable time'.

Butler's father died in 1916, his mother died in Dublin in 1917, and his sister - Frances Kathleen Gladys Parkinson-Cumine - married in Dublin in 1918.

 

JP

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
museumtom

Great stuff JP, I surely will. I will follow it all up tomorrow. There is no evidence, unless we find the grave register. I will email IFCP lads, they might have a member in that area.

 You are playing a blinder, both JP and Rolt, well done!!

Kind regards.

 Tom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...