WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

[patrick Eggs]

Once again the Armoured cars of the 17th Battalion ,operating in Ireland after being posted to Ireland from Calogne , this is a news picture from the Belfast Telegraph ,Wenesday ,november 26th. 1919 you may have seen it in the past ,but a good local picture from County Clare. I would like to think the Austin may be the Crimson Rambler ?

Crimson Rambler

[Minesweeper]

Do you think it possible that the Peerless chassis may not have been extended or altered in any way for the Armoured Car body but that very simply, a standard Peerless chassis has been used for the purpose and that the fitted standard body is just shorter than the chassis? Hence the overhang at the rear.

It looks very much like an ordinary Peerless chassis to me! I am sure readers will know that there is an example preserved at Bovington.

Tony

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Do you think it possible that the Peerless chassis may not have been extended or altered in any way for the Armoured Car body but that very simply, a standard Peerless chassis has been used for the purpose and that the fitted standard body is just shorter than the chassis? Hence the overhang at the rear.

It looks very much like an ordinary Peerless chassis to me! I am sure readers will know that there is an example preserved at Bovington.

Tony

Tony,

The American Peerless Truck chassis was not extended in any way, the Peerless truck chassis taken out of storage and utilized for the Austin-Peerless Armoured Cars were the very same basic truck chassis as had been used on the Peerless lorries.

The only reference to an ' extended chassis ' refers to the length of chassis that extended behind the Austin-Peerless Armoured Car's crew compartment, presumably because the armoured crew compartment built by Austin was that much shorter than the length of the Peerless chassis, hence the several feet of chassis extension/ overhang at the rear of the Austin-Peerless Armoured Car.

Attached are 2 photos of part of a consignment of Peerless truck chassis photographed at the Peerless factory in America prior to being shipped to Britain during WW1, it was these same unaltered chassis which were later utilized for the Austin-Peerless Armoured Car.

Also attached is a photo of the Austin-Peerless Armoured Car at Bovington, which clearly shows that length of chassis extension behind the rear of the crew compartment.

Regards,

LF

These images are reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The Austin-Peerless Armoured Car displayed at Bovington, with this photo clearly showing the length of the American Peerless Truck chassis which extended behind the rear of the crew compartment.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[phil@basildon]

Simples, The Austins were worn out but the armoured bodies still had some life left in them so the bodies were transferred to the Peerless chassis.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Simples, The Austins were worn out but the armoured bodies still had some life left in them so the bodies were transferred to the Peerless chassis.

Phil,

That appears not to have happened, as the model closest in age to the 1919 Austin-Peerless Armoured Car, was the Austin Model 1918, which was still on active service with the British Army at the time the 100 new Armoured Cars were ordered from Austin, with Model 1918 Armoured Cars being in Cologne, Germany, and others already in Ireland at the time the Austin-Peerless Armoured Cars were being built, and also remember, many of the Austin Armoured Cars were sent to Russia, so I do not think it was a matter of just switching 100 old armoured car bodies to the Peerless truck chassis which were in store.

The problem was, there would have been very, very few, if any, spare and servicable Armoured Cars available at that time, that could have been brought to Birmingham from all over Europe, dismantled and then re-assembled into new Armoured Cars. Here is a report in David Fletcher's excellent book " War Cars ", illustrating the dire shortage of decent and servicable Armoured Cars the British Army was experiencing at the end of WW1 ( hence the urgent need for 100 new ones ).

" The depleted 17th ( Armoured Car ) Battalion was in action right up to the time the Armistice took effect but rarely with more than six or seven cars fit for service at any one time............ The ultimate privilege for the armoured car men came on 6th December when eight cars escorted the Commanding Officer of 2nd Cavalry Brigade into Cologne to negotiate Allied Control of the city. "

What probably did happen, was that Austin Motors still had available the machinery and blueprints which they had previously been using for their Model 1918 Armoured Car, and those were basically the modified armoured bodies which Austin made in late 1919 to be fitted to the American Peerless truck chassis. The problem with the Peerless truck chassis being a few feet too long, was overcome by having that chassis extension behind the rear of the crew compartment.

Regards,

LF

[johnboy]

The chassis riveting above the rear axle and the position of the spring hanger look identical post#1628 and post#1627.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The chassis riveting above the rear axle and the position of the spring hanger look identical post#1628 and post#1627.

Johnboy,

They are identical chassis, the only difference, is the Bovington example is missing the rear towing hooks.

Regards,

LF

[johnboy]

My comment was to reinforce the view that these chassis were not extended.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

My comment was to reinforce the view that these chassis were not extended.

Johnboy,

yes, you perfectly correct, the American Peerless Truck Chassis themselves were not extended in any way, and your observation on the positioning of the chassis' rivets shown on the chassis at the Peerless factory and the chassis on the Bovington example is important.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Once again the Armoured cars of the 17th Battalion, operating in Ireland after being posted to Ireland from Calogne , this is a news picture from the Belfast Telegraph ,Wenesday ,november 26th. 1919 you may have seen it in the past ,but a good local picture from County Clare. I would like to think the Austin may be the Crimson Rambler ?

Crimson Rambler

Many thanks for the interesting newspaper cutting, and here is part of that photograph of the ' Whippet ' Medium A Tanks on patrol in County Clare as shown in the Belfast Telegraph newspaper, unfortunately, it does not include the Austin Armoured Car Model 1918 belonging to the 17th Battalion.

It is interesting to note, that the Medium Model A Tanks shown in the photograph were also belonging to the 17th Battalion and had been sent to Ireland to assist with internal security. Several of the 17th Battalion's ' Whippets ' also took part in the Victory Parade held in Dublin on 19th July, 1919, including the tanks named ' Golikelly ', ' Gofasta ' and ' Fannys Sister ' ( see attached photo ).

The British Army's need for a new much lighter tank was formulated towards the end of 1916, when it was envisaged that this lighter tank would be able to follow on behind the heavy tanks, then in service, and exploit any breakthrough of the enemy's defences made by those heavy tanks.

Sir William Tritton of William Foster & Co. Ltd., of Lincoln, undertook the design and manufacture of a proto-type light tank, known as ' Tritton's Light Machine ' or ' Tritton's Chaser ', which was completed in early February 1917.

Tritton's original light tank was powered by 2 x 45 hp Tylor engines fitted side by side, one to drive each track. The drive shafts for each could be locked together for steering the tank straight ahead, and turning was achieved by controls which opened the throttle of the engine driving one track and closed that of the other engine, as this procedure could result in the stalling of one or both engines, a high degree of driving skill was required. Once in service in France, the Tank Corps Central Workshop experimented by fitting a 360 hp Rolls-Royce ' Eagle ' aero engine to the Whippet in place of the 2 x 45 hp Tylor engines, and as a result, the Whippet's speed was substantially increased from 8.3 mph, to 30 mph.

Tritton's original design also had a revolving turret based on that used on the Austin Armoured Car, which was to be fitted with one Lewis machine gun. However, before production of the initial 200 Light Tank order commenced, the single revolving turret was replaced by a fixed turret with 4 Hotchkiss .303 machine guns fired through ball mountings in the turret, with one machine gun firing to the left, one to the right, one firing forward, and one firing to the rear. The new Light Tank's armour plate, was also increased from 9 mm to 14 mm in thickness.

As a result of these pre-production design changes the weight for the new Light Tank increased to 14 tons.

The first delivery of the new Light Tank to be known as ' Tank, Medium, Mark A ' or more generally known as the ' Whippet ' was made to the Tank Corps in March 1918, with 200 being completed by the end of WW1. The Whippets first went into action near Colincamps on 26th March 1918, when 12 of the new ' Whippets ' were used to stem the German offensive by surprising and routing 2 German Infantry Battalions.

Eight ' Whippets ' also supported the Guards' advance between Mons and Maubeuge on 5th November 1918, this being one of the last tank actions of WW1.

The Medium Mark A Tank's specification was as follows :-

Weight : 14 tons. Length : 20 feet. Width : 8 feet 7 inches. Height : 9 feet. Speed : 8.3 mph. Armour : 14 mm / 5 mm. Armament : 4 Hotchkiss .303 machine guns. Engine : 2 x 45 hp Tylor petrol engines, total 90 hp. Crew : 3. Range : 80 miles.

LF

Part c/o British Tanks and Fighting Vehicles 1914-45 by B.T. White.

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Some of the 17th Battalion's ' Whippet ' Medium Mark A Tanks taking part in the Victory Parade held in Dublin on 19th July, 1919.

The tank's names included ' Golikelly ', ' Gofasta ', and ' Fannys Sister '.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Medium Mark A Tanks ' Whippets ' of the 3rd Battalion advance through Maillet Mailley, a small Somme village in the Picardy region of N. France on 26th March, 1918.

LF

IWM9821This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

King George V inspecting Tanks, including 2 Medium Mark A Tanks and their crews at the Front, note the ' Whippet's ' crews are each armed with service revolvers.

Also of note, the Officer accompanying the King, is wearing the Tank Corps ' Tank HQ France ' brassard on his right arm.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Medium Mark A ' Whippet ' Tanks in production.

LF

IWM These images are reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A Medium Mark A ' Whippet ' Tank in action near Demiun, a small Somme village in the Picardy region of N. France.

Note the numerous petrol cans attached to the front of the tank, with the armoured box directly in the nose of the tank being the location of the Whippet's petrol tank.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A Medium Mark A ' Whippet ' Tank No. A/6 seen at the Vert Galant Aerodrome 12 miles North of Amiens sometime in August 1918. Also seen in the photo is an RAF Leyland Lorry.

The Vert Galant Aerodrome was from where Albert Ball, V.C., took off on his fatal last flight on 7th May, 1917.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A Medium Mark A ' Whippet ' Tank on display at Bovington.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Internal layout of the Medium Mark A ' Whippet ' Tank.

LF

These images are reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Sir William Tritton, designer of the Medium Mark A ' Whippet ' Tank.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[GRANVILLE]

I've just posted this picture on the thread concerning the use of tanks with jibs to service other tanks. Being as you are currently onto the subject of tanks I figure you might like a copy here also.

David

[Lancashire Fusilier]

I've just posted this picture on the thread concerning the use of tanks with jibs to service other tanks. Being as you are currently onto the subject of tanks I figure you might like a copy here also.

David

David,

A nice photo not just of the tanks including the one mounted with the jib, but also a good shot of the tank engine.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

tanks with jibs

David

David,

Here is another unusual combination, where the tank has been used as a base for mounting a ' Priestman ' crane, photographed in Arras 1918.

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[GRANVILLE]

Remarkable photo - I've not seen this before. Is the possibly the first instance of a heavy crane mounted on caterpillar tracks like this?

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Remarkable photo - I've not seen this before. Is the possibly the first instance of a heavy crane mounted on caterpillar tracks like this?

David,

This is the only example I have seen of a large ' Priestman ' crane mounted on a tank, and it may be unique, coming as it does towards the end of WW1.

Regards,

LF