Postcards

[FROGSMILE]

On 10 June 2017 at 11:53, ATNOMIS said:

East Lancashire Officer and WO. Tie with the hospital Blues looks bought privately? I'm sure not service issue.

 

 

 

Yes, I think it is a private tie, I am unaware of any special, hospital ties.  I wonder what the relationship between the two men was. It would have been unusual for regulars of such differing status to be photographed together so informally, but not so with TF and Service battalions, that tended to favour a more nuanced relationship, especially as the war went on.  Nevertheless, a relatively unusual photo, thank you for posting it.

Edited 11 June , 2017 by FROGSMILE

[Andrew Upton]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

Yes, I think it is a private tie, I am unaware of any special, hospital ties.

 

The standard tie issued with Hospital Blue uniform was a plain bright red tie - as per:

 

 

 

 

[ATNOMIS]

2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

Yes, I think it is a private tie, I am unaware of any special, hospital ties.  I wonder what the relationship between the two men was. It would have been unusual for regulars of such differing status to be photographed together so informally, but not so with TF and Service battalions, that tended to favour a more nuanced relationship, especially as the war went on.  Nevertheless, a relatively unusual photo, thank you for posting it.

 

Think they may be 24011 CSM Alfred Stezaker, DCM. 1/5th Battalion, East Lancashire Regiment. and Captain Thomas Henry Gladstone Grey MC. 2/5th Battalion, East Lancashire Regiment. Still waiting conformation 

[little bob]

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, Andrew Upton said:

 

The standard tie issued with Hospital Blue uniform was a plain bright red tie - as per:

 

 

 

 

Blimey!  Yes, I am aware of that having posted many, many times on the subject for years now, including similar images, and in threads where you have contributed.  Ergo:

 

1.  http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/153347-postcards/&page=174#comment-2496604

 

I was referring to 'special' as in private, as in non-government issue ties and thus outside the norm.

Edited 11 June , 2017 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, ATNOMIS said:

 

Think they may be 24011 CSM Alfred Stezaker, DCM. 1/5th Battalion, East Lancashire Regiment. and Captain Thomas Henry Gladstone Grey MC. 2/5th Battalion, East Lancashire Regiment. Still waiting conformation 

 

That's very interesting, Atnomis. Same regiment, but different battalion suggests that they might have served together in a New Army, East Lancs Bde (although I have not yet looked to see if there was one and the officer seems to be from a 2nd line of the 5th Battalion, whereas the WO is 1st line).  However, such photos were sometimes organised to mark a particularly brave act by a brigade's units, to accompany so-called 'human interest' stories for the regional press.  I wonder if that's what we see here.

Edited 11 June , 2017 by FROGSMILE

[ATNOMIS]

Alfred's brother William was Awarded the Meritorious Service Medal LG 18 January 1919

Alfred was LG 21 October 1918

Grey was LG 26 July 1918

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, ATNOMIS said:

Alfred's brother William was Awarded the Meritorious Service Medal LG 18 January 1919

Alfred was LG 21 October 1918

Grey was LG 26 July 1918

 

Perhaps then the photo accompanied a piece on the London Gazette entries in a local, maybe home-town newspaper.

Edited 11 June , 2017 by FROGSMILE

[Drew-1918]

 

The Bow Bells, 56th Divisional Concert Party. 

1 Officer and 2 ORs of the 1/7th or 1/8th Middlesex Rgt, two 1/9th Bn. QVR, three of the 1/16th Bn. QWR, one London Rgt Royal Fusilier, one 1/5th Bn. LRB, three of the 1/12th Bn. Rangers, and one ASC. 

 

Look out below for the fusilier who is here marked with a cross. I do not know if you would describe his attire as 'dress' or 'undress'. I think this is Harry Chapman 1/4th London Rgt RF. The Rangers man next to him appears to be Mark Leslie. The ASC man is Harry Brandon and the big QWR man marked with a pen line is Dick Horn. These last two are also pictured below (names found on the internet rather than from anything written on the back, so corrections welcome). 

 

From my own collection

Edited 13 June , 2017 by Drew-1918
Corrections

[Drew-1918]

 

 

 

[ATNOMIS]

A postcard from my collection.

 

Frank Wesley SOPWITH was born in 1897 in South Shields, Durham, his father, Alfred and his mother, Elizabeth. He had two brothers and one sister.

 

  Lieutenant (Royal Field Artillery, 251st Brigade (attached to 50th Division))
  Killed in action in France (27-May-1918)
  Awards: Military Cross, Mentioned in Dispatches, Victory Medal, British War Medal

 

251st Bde. attd. 50th Div. Northumbrian Heavy Bde.

 

Frank Wesley Sopwith was the son of Alfred Sopwith, company secretary (later to become commercial manager of the iron and steel department of Palmers shipbuilding and iron company) and his wife, Elizabeth.

Frank joined the High School from Miss Green's Prep School in South Shields, and left in July, 1913, to attend Durham College of Medicine.

He joined the 251st Brigade of the Royal Field Artillery, possibly in 1915, and was promoted to Lieutenant on 1-Jun-1916.

While in action in France in May, 1918, he was reported missing and later as having died on 27-May-1918.

 

Known Addresses

1901: 35 Marine Approach
1908: 3 Logan Terrace
1911: 3 Logan Terrace

 

 

 

[GRANVILLE]

On 6/11/2017 at 12:49, FROGSMILE said:

 

Yes, I think it is a private tie, I am unaware of any special, hospital ties.  I wonder what the relationship between the two men was. It would have been unusual for regulars of such differing status to be photographed together so informally, but not so with TF and Service battalions, that tended to favour a more nuanced relationship, especially as the war went on.  Nevertheless, a relatively unusual photo, thank you for posting it.

To me the tie pattern is so distinctive that I suspect it's design was inspired by the meandering lines of trenches.

 

David

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, GRANVILLE said:

To me the tie pattern is so distinctive that I suspect it's design was inspired by the meandering lines of trenches.

 

David

 

Yes, it does seem very reminiscent of the front line, doesn't it.

[GWF1967]

Mounted card.  

"The Arabs" Football Team. 17th Heavy Battery R.G.A.   The rear of the card shows 60 Pdr. R.G.A. " Carpet Slipper"

[FROGSMILE]

I suspect that the battery might have been based in Egypt before the war?  There is usually a rationale behind such nicknames.

Edited 17 June , 2017 by FROGSMILE

[mark holden]

Royal Engineer Dispatch Rider

[FROGSMILE]

I imagine that RE DRs were a part of the corp's Signal Service, but do not know for sure.

Edited 17 June , 2017 by FROGSMILE

[Muerrisch]

A fine looking young man, and a fascinating image. The DR/wheel badge is very interesting. Its use predated the Great War, and is the subject of an illustrated article in the MHS journal.

 

By David Knight,the article shows four such men with the badge in 1913, probably all Yorkshire Mounted Brigae, Yeomanry.

 

The badge never made it into Clothing Regs or the Priced Vocab.

 

Another "never say never"!

 

[Steven Broomfield]

On 6/11/2017 at 12:49, FROGSMILE said:

 

Yes, I think it is a private tie, I am unaware of any special, hospital ties.  I wonder what the relationship between the two men was. It would have been unusual for regulars of such differing status to be photographed together so informally, but not so with TF and Service battalions, that tended to favour a more nuanced relationship, especially as the war went on.  Nevertheless, a relatively unusual photo, thank you for posting it.

 

The 2/5th was disbanded in early-mid 1918, so it is possible that (not knowing the date of the photo) these two were together in the same battalion. I wonder if the photo celebrates the awards of the DCM and MC in the same action.

[FROGSMILE]

6 minutes ago, Steven Broomfield said:

 

The 2/5th was disbanded in early-mid 1918, so it is possible that (not knowing the date of the photo) these two were together in the same battalion. I wonder if the photo celebrates the awards of the DCM and MC in the same action.

 

I think that is a very likely scenario, Steven.  The two of them together seems to me to be for a significant reason.

[mark holden]

3 young London Irish Riflemen

[Pat Atkins]

On 6/17/2017 at 23:10, FROGSMILE said:

I imagine that RE DRs were a part of the corp's Signal Service, but do not know for sure.

Yes, they were RE Signal Service: initially certainly at Divisional level, though I can't say what happened as the war progressed (and this doesn't preclude Corps having had them from the start as well, of course).

 

It appears many RE Divisional DRs were recruited on the outbreak of war - and instantly made Corporal - on the strength of owning a motorbike, with limited military training prior to active service. There's an interesting thread about 5 Sigs Coy DRs in 1914-15 here; Vintagesunbeam is very knowledgeable about the subject.

 

Cheers, Pat.

[FROGSMILE]

7 hours ago, Pat Atkins said:

Yes, they were RE Signal Service: initially certainly at Divisional level, though I can't say what happened as the war progressed (and this doesn't preclude Corps having had them from the start as well, of course).

 

It appears many RE Divisional DRs were recruited on the outbreak of war - and instantly made Corporal - on the strength of owning a motorbike, with limited military training prior to active service. There's an interesting thread about 5 Sigs Coy DRs in 1914-15 here; Vintagesunbeam is very knowledgeable about the subject.

 

Cheers, Pat.

 

Thanks, Pat, I thought as much.  Very interesting.

[Terry_Reeves]

Geoffrey Green the editor of the Motor Cycle magazine personally interviewed the early DR candidates on behalf of the War Office at his office in Hertford St, Coventry. The magazine was owned by the Iliffe family who, as well as publishing two local newspapers, also published the Cyclist and Autocar magazines in the city.

 

TR

[FROGSMILE]

18 minutes ago, Terry_Reeves said:

Geoffrey Green the editor of the Motor Cycle magazine personally interviewed the early DR candidates on behalf of the War Office at his office in Hertford St, Coventry. The magazine was owned by the Iliffe family who, as well as publishing two local newspapers, also published the Cyclist and Autocar magazines in the city.

 

TR

 

It's easy to see why these early DRs, as well educated early motorcyclists, in many cases subsequently became interested in the RFC as aircrew.  There was even a direct read across in terms of the type of clothing that was worn by both.

Edited 20 June , 2017 by FROGSMILE