FROGSMILE Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 (edited) On 10 June 2017 at 11:53, ATNOMIS said: East Lancashire Officer and WO. Tie with the hospital Blues looks bought privately? I'm sure not service issue. Yes, I think it is a private tie, I am unaware of any special, hospital ties. I wonder what the relationship between the two men was. It would have been unusual for regulars of such differing status to be photographed together so informally, but not so with TF and Service battalions, that tended to favour a more nuanced relationship, especially as the war went on. Nevertheless, a relatively unusual photo, thank you for posting it. Edited 11 June , 2017 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said: Yes, I think it is a private tie, I am unaware of any special, hospital ties. The standard tie issued with Hospital Blue uniform was a plain bright red tie - as per: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATNOMIS Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: Yes, I think it is a private tie, I am unaware of any special, hospital ties. I wonder what the relationship between the two men was. It would have been unusual for regulars of such differing status to be photographed together so informally, but not so with TF and Service battalions, that tended to favour a more nuanced relationship, especially as the war went on. Nevertheless, a relatively unusual photo, thank you for posting it. Think they may be 24011 CSM Alfred Stezaker, DCM. 1/5th Battalion, East Lancashire Regiment. and Captain Thomas Henry Gladstone Grey MC. 2/5th Battalion, East Lancashire Regiment. Still waiting conformation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little bob Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Andrew Upton said: The standard tie issued with Hospital Blue uniform was a plain bright red tie - as per: Blimey! Yes, I am aware of that having posted many, many times on the subject for years now, including similar images, and in threads where you have contributed. Ergo: 1. http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/153347-postcards/&page=174#comment-2496604 I was referring to 'special' as in private, as in non-government issue ties and thus outside the norm. Edited 11 June , 2017 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, ATNOMIS said: Think they may be 24011 CSM Alfred Stezaker, DCM. 1/5th Battalion, East Lancashire Regiment. and Captain Thomas Henry Gladstone Grey MC. 2/5th Battalion, East Lancashire Regiment. Still waiting conformation That's very interesting, Atnomis. Same regiment, but different battalion suggests that they might have served together in a New Army, East Lancs Bde (although I have not yet looked to see if there was one and the officer seems to be from a 2nd line of the 5th Battalion, whereas the WO is 1st line). However, such photos were sometimes organised to mark a particularly brave act by a brigade's units, to accompany so-called 'human interest' stories for the regional press. I wonder if that's what we see here. Edited 11 June , 2017 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATNOMIS Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 Alfred's brother William was Awarded the Meritorious Service Medal LG 18 January 1919 Alfred was LG 21 October 1918 Grey was LG 26 July 1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, ATNOMIS said: Alfred's brother William was Awarded the Meritorious Service Medal LG 18 January 1919 Alfred was LG 21 October 1918 Grey was LG 26 July 1918 Perhaps then the photo accompanied a piece on the London Gazette entries in a local, maybe home-town newspaper. Edited 11 June , 2017 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 13 June , 2017 Share Posted 13 June , 2017 (edited) The Bow Bells, 56th Divisional Concert Party. 1 Officer and 2 ORs of the 1/7th or 1/8th Middlesex Rgt, two 1/9th Bn. QVR, three of the 1/16th Bn. QWR, one London Rgt Royal Fusilier, one 1/5th Bn. LRB, three of the 1/12th Bn. Rangers, and one ASC. Look out below for the fusilier who is here marked with a cross. I do not know if you would describe his attire as 'dress' or 'undress'. I think this is Harry Chapman 1/4th London Rgt RF. The Rangers man next to him appears to be Mark Leslie. The ASC man is Harry Brandon and the big QWR man marked with a pen line is Dick Horn. These last two are also pictured below (names found on the internet rather than from anything written on the back, so corrections welcome). From my own collection Edited 13 June , 2017 by Drew-1918 Corrections Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 13 June , 2017 Share Posted 13 June , 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATNOMIS Posted 14 June , 2017 Share Posted 14 June , 2017 A postcard from my collection. Frank Wesley SOPWITH was born in 1897 in South Shields, Durham, his father, Alfred and his mother, Elizabeth. He had two brothers and one sister. Lieutenant (Royal Field Artillery, 251st Brigade (attached to 50th Division)) Killed in action in France (27-May-1918) Awards: Military Cross, Mentioned in Dispatches, Victory Medal, British War Medal 251st Bde. attd. 50th Div. Northumbrian Heavy Bde. Frank Wesley Sopwith was the son of Alfred Sopwith, company secretary (later to become commercial manager of the iron and steel department of Palmers shipbuilding and iron company) and his wife, Elizabeth. Frank joined the High School from Miss Green's Prep School in South Shields, and left in July, 1913, to attend Durham College of Medicine. He joined the 251st Brigade of the Royal Field Artillery, possibly in 1915, and was promoted to Lieutenant on 1-Jun-1916. While in action in France in May, 1918, he was reported missing and later as having died on 27-May-1918. Known Addresses 1901: 35 Marine Approach 1908: 3 Logan Terrace 1911: 3 Logan Terrace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 14 June , 2017 Share Posted 14 June , 2017 On 6/11/2017 at 12:49, FROGSMILE said: Yes, I think it is a private tie, I am unaware of any special, hospital ties. I wonder what the relationship between the two men was. It would have been unusual for regulars of such differing status to be photographed together so informally, but not so with TF and Service battalions, that tended to favour a more nuanced relationship, especially as the war went on. Nevertheless, a relatively unusual photo, thank you for posting it. To me the tie pattern is so distinctive that I suspect it's design was inspired by the meandering lines of trenches. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 14 June , 2017 Share Posted 14 June , 2017 2 hours ago, GRANVILLE said: To me the tie pattern is so distinctive that I suspect it's design was inspired by the meandering lines of trenches. David Yes, it does seem very reminiscent of the front line, doesn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 17 June , 2017 Share Posted 17 June , 2017 Mounted card. "The Arabs" Football Team. 17th Heavy Battery R.G.A. The rear of the card shows 60 Pdr. R.G.A. " Carpet Slipper" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 17 June , 2017 Share Posted 17 June , 2017 (edited) I suspect that the battery might have been based in Egypt before the war? There is usually a rationale behind such nicknames. Edited 17 June , 2017 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark holden Posted 17 June , 2017 Share Posted 17 June , 2017 Royal Engineer Dispatch Rider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 17 June , 2017 Share Posted 17 June , 2017 (edited) I imagine that RE DRs were a part of the corp's Signal Service, but do not know for sure. Edited 17 June , 2017 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 18 June , 2017 Share Posted 18 June , 2017 A fine looking young man, and a fascinating image. The DR/wheel badge is very interesting. Its use predated the Great War, and is the subject of an illustrated article in the MHS journal. By David Knight,the article shows four such men with the badge in 1913, probably all Yorkshire Mounted Brigae, Yeomanry. The badge never made it into Clothing Regs or the Priced Vocab. Another "never say never"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 18 June , 2017 Share Posted 18 June , 2017 On 6/11/2017 at 12:49, FROGSMILE said: Yes, I think it is a private tie, I am unaware of any special, hospital ties. I wonder what the relationship between the two men was. It would have been unusual for regulars of such differing status to be photographed together so informally, but not so with TF and Service battalions, that tended to favour a more nuanced relationship, especially as the war went on. Nevertheless, a relatively unusual photo, thank you for posting it. The 2/5th was disbanded in early-mid 1918, so it is possible that (not knowing the date of the photo) these two were together in the same battalion. I wonder if the photo celebrates the awards of the DCM and MC in the same action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 June , 2017 Share Posted 18 June , 2017 6 minutes ago, Steven Broomfield said: The 2/5th was disbanded in early-mid 1918, so it is possible that (not knowing the date of the photo) these two were together in the same battalion. I wonder if the photo celebrates the awards of the DCM and MC in the same action. I think that is a very likely scenario, Steven. The two of them together seems to me to be for a significant reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark holden Posted 18 June , 2017 Share Posted 18 June , 2017 3 young London Irish Riflemen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Atkins Posted 20 June , 2017 Share Posted 20 June , 2017 On 6/17/2017 at 23:10, FROGSMILE said: I imagine that RE DRs were a part of the corp's Signal Service, but do not know for sure. Yes, they were RE Signal Service: initially certainly at Divisional level, though I can't say what happened as the war progressed (and this doesn't preclude Corps having had them from the start as well, of course). It appears many RE Divisional DRs were recruited on the outbreak of war - and instantly made Corporal - on the strength of owning a motorbike, with limited military training prior to active service. There's an interesting thread about 5 Sigs Coy DRs in 1914-15 here; Vintagesunbeam is very knowledgeable about the subject. Cheers, Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 June , 2017 Share Posted 20 June , 2017 7 hours ago, Pat Atkins said: Yes, they were RE Signal Service: initially certainly at Divisional level, though I can't say what happened as the war progressed (and this doesn't preclude Corps having had them from the start as well, of course). It appears many RE Divisional DRs were recruited on the outbreak of war - and instantly made Corporal - on the strength of owning a motorbike, with limited military training prior to active service. There's an interesting thread about 5 Sigs Coy DRs in 1914-15 here; Vintagesunbeam is very knowledgeable about the subject. Cheers, Pat. Thanks, Pat, I thought as much. Very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 20 June , 2017 Share Posted 20 June , 2017 Geoffrey Green the editor of the Motor Cycle magazine personally interviewed the early DR candidates on behalf of the War Office at his office in Hertford St, Coventry. The magazine was owned by the Iliffe family who, as well as publishing two local newspapers, also published the Cyclist and Autocar magazines in the city. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 June , 2017 Share Posted 20 June , 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Terry_Reeves said: Geoffrey Green the editor of the Motor Cycle magazine personally interviewed the early DR candidates on behalf of the War Office at his office in Hertford St, Coventry. The magazine was owned by the Iliffe family who, as well as publishing two local newspapers, also published the Cyclist and Autocar magazines in the city. TR It's easy to see why these early DRs, as well educated early motorcyclists, in many cases subsequently became interested in the RFC as aircrew. There was even a direct read across in terms of the type of clothing that was worn by both. Edited 20 June , 2017 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now