Footballers died

[Steve Bramley]

Jim,

You are technically right, Grimsby are also known as the fishermen, but only by people outside of the town, most football books used to give both 'Mariners' and 'Fishermen' as the nickname.

I've mentioned on another recent thread about the club captain in 1915 Sid Wheelhouse. When trawling ('scuse the pun) through old newspapers in the library i came across his obituary. He died in 1916 whilst serving in the 17th Middlesex (footballers) Bn. It's an interesting read. If you would like a transcript let me know.

In the papers i was reading our neighbours Scunthorpe Utd, who were in the midland league at the time, were refered to as 'The Nuts' (no wonder they call us Cod 'eds!)

Merry Christmas,

steve.

[jim_davies]

Steve,

A copy of Sid's obituary would be most welcome. If you wanted a copy of Harold's (he was KIA during the attack on the Mercian) let me know and I'd be happy to email you one.

Jim

[Stuart Basson]

I can add the following footballers with a Chesterfield FC connection:

William Webber Walter GERRISH, Middlesex Regiment, kia 8.8.16 (also Preston NE & Aston Villa)

Arthur REVILL, Grenadier Guards, d of wounds 29.9.15

Samuel BAGNALL, Sherwood Foresters, d 6.7.16

James W REVILL, Royal Engineers, d 9.4.17 (also Sheffield United)

Joseph SMITH d as yet uncertain: certainly after May 1915 but as yet unable to sort him out from the many Joe Smiths on the CWGC site! Here he is, below:

[FRICOURT]

Lt Evelyn Henry Lintott, 15th West Yorks(Leeds Pals), Kia at Serre 1.7.1916.

QPR May to Nov 1908, then joined Bradford City for £1,000. joined Leeds City now United in 1912 on maximum wages at the time of £208 pa.

7 full caps for England 1908 and 1909.

He was a Schoolmaster in Bradford.

Charlie

[Jonathan Saunders]

Fricourt - interesting info about a 1 July fatality who was also obviously a top quality footballer of his era.

I wonder if any of our European Pals have details of French, Belgium or German footballers that died in the Great War?

[Old Chap]

Here's a Liverpool player for the list,

Captain John Rhonwy Williams, died 12/8/16, 10th Lpool's (Lpool Scottish). The Liverpool Echo, 18/8/16 quotes 'was a well known player with the Liverpool football club.' His father was also an ex Lord Mayor of Liverpool.

There are also a couple of non-league players who played for Sealand Road (Chester City) who enlisted in the Liverpool Pals. I can root the names out if there are of any use.

Bill

[Old Chap]

Not a casualty but his two sons sadly died.

George Molyneux played for Everton and was also an English International. His two sons, 22782 Ellis Molyneux, 20th Liverpool battalion (Pals), kia 20/10/16. I think the other son was 15613, George Molyneux, 14th Royal Irish Rifles, kia 1/7/16.

Bill

[AGWR]

Fricourt,

Lintott was an early chairman of the PFA. He was also the first footballer to receive a commission.

Stuart,

CSM Joe SMITH (17th Middlesex) was killed in action on 13/11/1916 near Serre. I would be extremely grateful for any footballing/biographical info that you might have on him or Billy Gerrish for that matter.

Mark,

I thought that Tommy Barber (although wounded) survived the war, playing for Merthyr Town and Pontypridd before finishing his career at Walsall in 1921. According to my records, he died in 1925 at the age of 39. Unless of course, this was a different Tommy Barber, but I am pretty sure that it is the same bloke.

Regards

AGWR

[enoch beard]

I dont think anybody mentioned Harold Bache (2lt lan fus) who played for west bromwich albion who was killed in 16,he got 7 amateur caps for england ,cambridge soccer blueand played rugby ,tennis and hockey for his country!

enoch

[HERITAGE PLUS]

CPO George Prowse VC DCM who was KIA on 29 Sep 1918 Nr.Arleux was not a professional footballer however he was captain of the Reserve Team of his local Somerset club - Camerton.

[HERITAGE PLUS]

James Dines of Kings Lynn FC was KIA. He was an England Amatuer International who was in the GB team that won the Olympic Games Tournament in 1912.

[westbrook]

Hi, his name was Joseph Dines, and he was my GG Uncle. He was a school teacher in Kings Lynn and there is a memorial to him in the museum there. He was KIA on 27th September 1918 in France.

Scott Westbrook

[Stuart Basson]

Another ex-Chesterfield Town man:

Charles Neil NEWCOMBE

Former Head Boy at the Chesterfield School; Derbyshire County Cricketer and CTFC footballer 1910-1912. Later at Rotherham Town and Glossop (2 FL games!)

born 16.3.1891 Yarmouth (not sure if the Great one or the Isle of Wight one!) and kia 27.12.1915, Fleuraix.

AGWR: I also have a Tommy Barber - the one you mention above - playing once as a guest for the Chesterfield Municipal FC in May 1919.

Jim Davies: Perhaps Harold Springthorpe's "Wanderers" was the English Wanderers touring side that played in Scandanavia, N Europe and Russia in 1910-11? Another ex-Chesterfield man and son of Grimsby, Will Cuthbert, played in the side along with a number of well-known amateur internationals.

Stu

[jim_davies]

Stu,

Thanks for the heads up about the English Wanderers. This is another lead to hunt down.

Cheers,

Jim

[kingsman64]

Yes Okay Okay I know wrong shaped Balls (pardon).

But let us not forget Lt Col. Edgar Mobbs D.S.O. 7th Northants. Ex- England Rugby International and Northampton Saints. Offered his services to the war office as a potential officer in 1914 and was rejected, returned home to Northampton and organised a meeting at Franklin's Gardens (home of the Northampton Saints to you footbally types) Recruited 400 men on the spot and marched to the town hall to offer up this fine body of men and himself as a private soldier. This body of men became D Company "Mobb's Own" 7th Battalion Northamptonshire regiment. Edgar Mobbs was Promoted to RSM while training at Shoreham was a 2nd lieutenant by the time they reached France wounded twice awarded the DSO promoted to Lt. Col caommanding the Battalion eventually KIA at Paschendale 1917 at the head of his beloved 7th Battalion.

He played the game, we will remeber them.

Footnote Saints play an Edgar Mobbs rememberance match Every season against the Barbarians. There is also an Edgar mobbs memorial obelisk including a Bronze Bust of Edgar directly facing the Northamptonshire War memorial, ironic that Edgars statue is looking at the names of the fallen including the 7th Battalion men he cared so deeply for.

Regards

[Guest Northumberland]

Some information about Newcastle United during WW1 from "The official centenary history" by Paul Joannou.

1914/15 season; "Instead of the normal ...practice on the St James park turf; they now lined up with rifles at ranges set up in the Gallowgate goalmouth. Lord Kitchener’s call for men ... received a tremendous response... and all told out of a playing strength of 40... 27 joined the forces in the coming month. Newcastle United officially all but closed down on 22nd July 1915... the club in effect being mothballed for the rest of the war.

Sadly some players were not to return. Private Tommy Goodwill was killed in action in 1916 serving with the Northumberland Fusiliers was the only senior player to lose his life. Others who did not return were young reserves, Private George rivers, Corporal tom cairns, Bombardier Richard McGough, Corporal Dan Dunglison, Tom Hughes.

Two former Newcastle players lost their lives. John Fleming, later at Tottenham, rose to rank of major in the EastYorks regiment and was killed in 1917. Tom Rowlandson fell in 1916. With the magpies for two years he won the Military cross serving as a captain also in the Yorkshire regiment. Some returned home disabled and maimed. Steve Hardy, a young inside forward was gassed when serving in the machine Gun Corps; he was forced to give up playing and later became secretary at Nottingham Forest

[Guest Northumberland]

Some more Newcastle player information to add on to the previous message ( courtesy of the Newcastle evening Chronicle):

Frank Hudspeth served in the Royal Navy before going on to captain the 1924 FA Cup Final winning team, and Wilf Low, who is tenth in the all-time list of club appearances, who served in the Royal Engineers.

Also Colin Veitch, who won three league championships and one FA Cup with Newcastle rose to the rank of 2nd lieutenant during the war.

and more on Tommy Goodwill was born in Northumberland in 1894 who made his debut against Everton in September 1913. He went on to make 60 appearances scoring seven goals along the way. he joined the 16th Northumberland Fusiliers when fighting began and was killed in July 1916 and his name is engraved on the memorial at Thiepval, one of 73,412 men who have no known grave there.

Does anyone have any photos of the Newcastle team or players from 1914/15 ?

[Old Blue]

Jack Huggins played for Sunderland in the First Division in 1906/1907 and after a spell with Reading, rejoined Sunderland in 1909. In the 1906/1907 season Sunderland came 10th and he made 14 appearances and scored 2 goals.

I believe he is the Pte. John Warwick Huggins who died at Ypres on 26/04/1915 whilst serving in the 1/8th DLI. He is buried at Perth Cemetery (China Wall).

I think these details are correct - my grandfather was a contemporary at Bede College, Durham and 1/8th Durhams at Ypres.

[mpjbrennan]

The main reason that the 1914-15 season carried on was that no-one in Government asked for it to be suspended - the war was only going to last a few weeks, and there were only 7,000 professional footballers in the country. The only people calling for it to be cancelled were those who were still opposed to professionalism. Football clubs made facilties available for the armed forces to recruit at football matches, and everyone was happy - for a while. However, no-one had anticipated the rush of volunteers, which reduced the number of available spectators and players alike. (In County Durham alone 3,605 players, 1,102 officials and 615 other members had enlisted by May 1915.) Average Football League gates fell by 50% as early as October 1914, and just about every club made a loss on the season. As a result, the league programme for 1915-16 was cancelled, and local competitions were set up in the North-West, the Midlands, and London. A key feature of these was a prohibition on payments to players, other than expenses. Various minor leagues made similar arrangements, but as the war dragged on getting a team together became increasingly difficult, and sometimes teams had borrow spectators to make up their numbers. These local competitions continued till the end of 1918-19.

Other professional sports continued during the War - horse racing wasn't banned until June 1918, and even then Newmarket was allowed to continue - one wonders if its proximity to Sandringham had anything to do with this.

Another problem was the requisitioning of grounds by the military. Part of Newcastle United's pitch was dug up in April 1915 for the erection of temporary offices for the War Office accounts department, and the main stand at White Hart Lane was converted into a gas-mask factory. Non-league clubs suffered the most - their grounds were ideal for military drill, and when this involved detachments of the Royal Artillery practising field gun drill the pitch was left in a very poor condition.

Finally - three footballler casualties to add to the list:

Richard McFadden, William Jonas, George Scott (Clapton Orient) all KIA - more details on the Leyton Orient website.

Patrick

[bernardmcilwaine]

the stockport county full back cpl fred houghton cheshire regt died of fever on 15th nov,1918 in mespot,the nottingham forest goalkeeper was killed in the war but i cant remember which newspaper page hes on,bernard

[bernardmcilwaine]

the stockport county full back cpl fred houghton cheshire regt died of fever on 15th nov,1918 in mespot,the nottingham forest goalkeeper was killed in the war but i cant remember which newspaper page hes on,bernard

[Andrew Hesketh]

As a result of a similar (but different thread) I e-mailed the FA museum at Preston asking whether the FA had ever compiled a roll of honour. I thought you might be interested in their helpful reply.

"Hello Andrew,

As far as I know the FA never drew up a roll of honour. Perhaps the reason was that so many footballers (professionals, semi professionals and amateurs), hundreds of thousands, served in the forces and thousands died, how long would you make the list? The FA did commission a large metal plaque, around 1922, which was put on the wall of their HQ in London. When they moved to new offices recently, it was given to us to keep. I attach a photograph of it being unveiled by Gordon Taylor of the PFA about 3 years ago.

Perhaps individual football clubs had a roll of honour, but I doubt whether these would be easy to find. There was a Football Relief Fund set up by the FA later in the war and this continued to give out grants to injured ex footballers or widows through the 1920s and into the 1930s. We find these listed in the printed FA minutes which we have copies of.

Perhaps you could ask the FA library in London (David Barber) if he has heard of a Roll of Honour or contact the Professional Footballers Association (PFA) in Manchester who may have something. A long shot I am afraid. Let me know if you find anything. I would be interested.

Regards,

Peter Holme

Reseach Officer"

In my reply I shall point Peter in the direction of this excellent thread.

[Andrew Hesketh]

The attached piccie:

[Boreenatra]

Did post this last year but it's worth another look. Caption reads "Brighton and Hove Albion at drill" Anyone recognise any of them. Forget 4-5-1 this is the formation to adopt for mean defences. Regards Steve

[Julian Whippy]

Not to be forgotten is Charlton FC, The Addicks, and courtesy of an article by Forum member Clive Harris which he wrote for a special feature in their Football programme "Valley Review", in their match against another quality side, The Hammers at new year last.

Many of the Charltons fans had already swelled the ranks of the 20th Londons (Woolwich and Blackheath) by the time the club decided to "wind up" for the duration in March 1915. Records show 30 Club members, players and officials joined the forces. 4 lost their lives and seven more were wounded.

One such man was Fred Chick (see photo) player and trainer at what is now the Valley signed on the 13th Middlesex, an over spill of the 17th (footballers) Bn. He is listed as Private 245365. He was killed in action 31/8/16 and is buried at Caterpillar Valley cem, at Longueval on the Somme.