Footballers died

[Steve Newman]

Scottie

When I am home this weekend I will put up the Spurs details I have although a couple are mentioned as being KIA but I cannot prove this fact so they reside in the aforementioned 'possible' folder. One I do know is Archie Wilson who joined Southend from Spurs as a very young man where I don't think he made a 1st team appearance and was a great success with us playing many games, and scoring many goals he went on to be KIA on 1/7/16 with the London Scottish

Steve

[johnny_doyle]

The CWGC Hall of Fame microsite gives the names of 11 Spurs players who were killed in WW1 plus a mention of Tull and players for some ofther teams

http://www.cwgc.org/glorydays/halloffame_ww1.html

There's supposed to be a photo of the Spurs players in an RE unit but clicking gives a not found message unfortunately.

For Swindon Town FC, the book "Swindon's War Record" lists 4 players and "one brilliant young amateur". Supplemented with data from "Tell Them of Us" by Mark Sutton these were :

Pte G Bathe 10221, 1st Bn Wiltshire Regt KIA 20/1915 aged 25

Pte W A Brewer 10398, D Co, 1st Bn Wiltshire Regt KIA 13/11/1914 aged 21

Bombardier A Milton 151944, B Battery, 64th Brigade, RFA, KIA 11/10/1917 aged 31 previously played for Sunderladnd and South Kirby in Barnsley

Lt F G Wheatcroft 5th Bn East Surrey Regt KIA 26/11/1917 aged 35 previously played for Derby, Fulham and Reading

Cpl Harold Warren MM, M2/118949, ASC, "P" Siege Park attd. XI Corps Heavy Artillery. Died of influenza 15/11/1918 aged 25,

A brass tablet with their names was placed in the dressing room at the CountyGround.

Dr S Maclean who had a long association with the club and had been Chairman, died on 21st July 1918. He had been called up and within hours of being passed medically fit for service he was taken ill and died.

Swindon Cricket Club lost :

2nd Lt F G Dean, 162nd Brigade, RFA, KIA 16/10/1917

Pte P O Bown 90674 , RAMC, died 23/02/1918

"Mr Rawlings would be unable to play again and Mr B T Wilson's future was uncertain due to wounds."

Pte R W Mentham 13602, Coldstream Guards, KIA 28/11/1917 was a goalkeeper for Swindon Corinthians. His step-brother Pte Alexander McKay was also KIA 19/5/1915.

[Steve Newman]

Thanks for those Johnny,

The Tottenham lads are not easy to pinpoint, well 6 of them are but the other 5 less so...

J. Jarvie

Alf Hobday

J Hebdon

WHD Lloyd

A McGregor

None appear in the football league records I have and there are more than one on CWGC/SDGW although birth places of some sway certain guys as favourites, anyone know for certain whether they were definitely players and if so which is the correct one?

Cheers

Steve

[cockney tone]

Steve,

bit of a mystery here, I have had a look through a Spurs book that claims to list every player that has played for them between September 1908-July 1981 and not one of the men you posted are shown on it? I suppose its possible they played for them before 1908 but i think thats unlikely!

WD Tull appears with 10 appearences and two goals!

Regards,

Scottie.

[cockney tone]

Steve,

could it be that they were employed by the Spurs (groundsman etc) and therefore appeared on the list with the players?

Scottie.

[Steve Newman]

I think that is probbaly the case especially as the document it wa taken from says 'men associated with Spurs' rather than 'players of'.

Hopefully someone can shed light on the truth and if not players what was their association with Spurs?

Steve

[pwhh123]

Gavin

The book I mentioned is now in press, and should be out by Christmas with a bit of luck, though it can be ordered in advance. There is a website for it: http://www.troubador.co.uk/book_info.asp?bookid=732

Best wishes

Peter

Hello

I would be very interested in a copy of your book - My Grandmothers Great Uncle was George Utley who played with Wilfred Bartrop in the Barnsley sides that contested the 1910 FA Cup and the who won the 1912 FA Cup, but you probably know all that.

George went on to captain Sheffield United and he played in the "Kahki Cup Final" in 1915.

I have been researching a bit about George and the matches he played but I've not been able to confirm what he did during the war. He may have avoided service by heading underground as his family were mostly miners from south of Barnsley.

One of the most interesting players at the Kahki Final, who didn't actually play, was Vivian Woodward. He played as an amateur for Chelsea and England but he had joined up early in the war joining the 17th Middlesex the footballers battalion. But when Chelsea reached the final he was given permission to play by the army. He arrived at Old Trafford but his team mate Bob Thomson who had been injured had recovered and Vivian who was renowned for his sportsmanship refused to take his place as he not played in any of the rounds and felt his team mate who had, deserved the place. Woodward was wounded in 1916 and never played football again.

Look forward to seeing the book

Gavin McL

[pwhh123]

Rich

Re: Freddie Wheatcroft and Swindon FC

Freddie Wheatcroft is buried in Anneux Cemetery at the foot of Bourlon Wood. He died in one of the many battles for Bourlon Wood, on 27 November 1917. I tried to piece together what happened to him, using the official History of the 40th Division and the War Diaries. In brief, he was commanding the 13th East Surrey Regiment in a movement aimed at re-taking Bourlon village, but they got cut off from their back-up and most men were killed. I attach a photo of Wheatcroft. Below is some text about Wheatcroft I have extracted from my forthcoming book on another footballer who fought in the Great War, Wilf Bartrop

http://www.troubador.co.uk/book_info.asp?bookid=732

“Wheatcroft was one of the last truly amateur footballers competing at the highest level, including playing the England Amateur Football Team He was a schoolteacher, but also played as inside forward, or striker in today’s terms, for Alfreton Town, Derby County, Swindon Town, Fulham and Reading Football Club. It was with Swindon Town that he enjoyed most success. As recounted earlier, Swindon Town were a renowned team in the Southern League, and had won that league in 1910/11. On many occasions, they had matched or bettered their fully professional colleagues when drawn against them in the FA Cup. For example, in 1910 they had reached the semi-final of the Cup, only to lose to the eventual winners Newcastle United. In 1911 they made the quarter-finals, and in 1912 the semi-finals again. Few teams, professional or amateur, could claim such consistency. Freddie Wheatcroft had been a regular and important member of this remarkably successful team, although he was absent for Swindon Town’s victory over Barnsley in the Dubonnet Cup played in Paris in the summer of 1910. …….(text deleted)…

Freddie Wheatcroft and the 13th East Surrey Regiment were part of the 40th Division that had captured Bourlon Wood and parts of Bourlon village in November 1917. As recounted earlier, it had been one of the most ferocious battles of the war, as neither side could afford to give up the strategic point of Bourlon Wood. On the 26th November 1917, the order came to withdraw the 40th Division, so that the weary and depleted troops could be replaced with fresh men from the 62nd Division. Despite the early successes, which had set the church bells ringing in England, this was never going to be a simple withdrawal. The 13th East Surreys posed a particular problem. Wheatcroft, together with the other officers and men, had advanced ahead of the rest of the Allied line and by the 26th November they found themselves in a very dangerous predicament. Ten tanks were supposed to have supported their advance, but these never materialized, and to make matters worse the troops that were meant to be providing covering fire had been forced back by the enemy. As a consequence, the 13th East Surreys had now become isolated from the rest of the Division, on the edge of Bourlon village. The officers and men found shelter inside one of the deserted houses, but with little support they soon found themselves under intense machine fire and artillery attack. The walls around them were gradually being demolished as shell after shell found its target. Needless to say, casualties were high. That day, the 27th November 1917, was the last day that the 40th Division fought at Bourlon Wood as the withdrawal went ahead as planned. It was also on this day that Second Lieutenant F.G. Wheatcroft, footballer and teacher, died in action, alongside so many of his troops. "

Regards

Peter

Swindon Town FC had, according to wikipedia, a single casualty during the Great War. This was

Lt. Freddie Wheatcroft

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=188228

It is also interesting to try and track some of the players who survived but that, obviously, is a much bigger job - I did find, I think, Harold Fleming's MIC on ancestry.

Definitely an interesting research project.

Regards

Rich

[johnny_doyle]

The Times (Nov 8th 2008) carried a review of When The Whistle Blows ~ The Story of the Footballers Battalion in the Great War.

From the online version of the Time:

Summary

This book includes a foreword by Richard Holmes. This timely history - published in the 90th anniversary year of the end of the Great War - tells the full story of the 17th Battalion Middlesex Regiment, the 'Footballers' Battalion'. Based on extensive original research, Andrew Riddoch and John Kemp draw on many previously unpublished letters, personal accounts and photographs to paint a vivid portrait of this legendary British Army battalion that fought in three of the fiercest battles of the Great War - the Somme, Arras and Cambrai. The authors show how this remarkable battalion helped shape football, as well as military history.

Contents

Foreword by the acclaimed military historian and broadcaster Richard Holmes. Tells the story of this famous 'Pals' battalion for the first time. Battalion fought in the Battles of the Somme, Arras and Cambrai. Extensively researched and contains many previously unpublished photographs. Players in the battalion have connections to over 80 current Football League clubs. Clubs range from Premiership clubs, such as Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool, to lower league clubs like Northampton Town, Plymouth Argyle and Grimsby Town. Contains a roll of 3,500 men known to have served with the Footballers' Battalion and A-Z biographical sketches of significant players. Published in the 90th anniversary year of the end of the First World War.

[Pete1052]

Click here to read the review by The Times of the book When the Whistle Blows: The Story of the Footballers' Battalion in the Great War.

[liverpool annie]

I looked through the thread and didn't see this soldier .... I apologise if he's already on your list !

Leigh Roose the fourth son of Richmond Roose, the minister of Holt Presbyterian Church, was born on 26th November, 1877. His mother, Eliza Roose, died of cancer when Leigh was only four years old.

After leaving Holt Academy in 1893, Roose went to study medicine at the University of Wales. A talented sportsman, Roose played in goal for the university team. He soon emerged as the team's star player, and was signed by Aberystwyth Town, who played in the North Wales Combination League.

Roose developed a unique style of goalkeeping. At this time goalkeepers could handle the ball anywhere inside their own half. Law 8 stated: "The goalkeeper may, within his own half of the field of play, use his hands, but shall not carry the ball." Roose developed the habit of bouncing the ball up to the half-way line before launching an attack with a long kick or a good throw. As Spencer Vignes points out in his book on Leigh Roose: "This was perfectly within the letter of the law, though few goalkeepers risked doing it for fear of either leaving their goal unattended or being streamrollered by a centre-forward. It became a highly effective, direct way of launching attacks and Leigh used it to his side's advantage whenever possible."

Fred Griffiths was the regular goalkeeper for the national team. However, he let in five goals against Scotland and Roose was awarded his first international cap for Wales against Ireland on 24th February, 1900. During the game Ireland launched an attack down the right wing through Harry O'Reilly. Roose sprinted from his goalmouth and deliberately barged the Irishman into touch. Roose hit O'Reilly so hard that he was knocked unconscious. According to the rules of the time, no free-kick was awarded. As Rose later pointed out: "If a forward has to be met and charge down, do not hesitate to charge with all your might." Wales won 2-0 with goals from Billy Meredith and Thomas David Parry.

The following month Roose was a member of the Aberystwyth Town team that one the Welsh Cup. However, at the end of the season Roose left the club as he had taken up a job as a trainee doctor at Kings College Hospital in Holborn.

On 12th October, 1901, Roose joined Stoke City in the First Division of the Football League. As he was working as a doctor he signed as a amateur. Although he was not paid wages he was given an unlimited expense account. This included the club paying for first-class train travel, the best hotels for overnight stays, new suits, designer shoes and other unnamed "extras".

In Memory of

Lance Corporal LEIGH RICHMOND ROOSE

M M

PS/10898, 9th Bn., Royal Fusiliers

who died age 38

on 07 October 1916

(Served as Leigh ROUSE). Former football player and Wales International. Son of Richmond L. and Eliza Roose.

Remembered with honour

THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

London Gazette (21st September 1916)

Private Leigh Roose, who had never visited the trenches before, was in the sap when the flammenwerfer attack began. He managed to get back along the trench and, though nearly choked with fumes with his clothes burnt, refused to go to the dressing station. He continued to throw bombs until his arm gave out, and then, joining the covering party, used his rifle with great effect.

On the outbreak of the First World War Roose immediately joined the Royal Army Medical Corps. His father, Richmond Roose was a pacifist who was strongly opposed to his son becoming involved in the conflict. Roose was sent to France and worked at a hospital in Rouen. His job was to treat injured soldiers from the Western Front before arranging their transport back to Britain.

In April 1915 Leigh Roose was transferred to the Evacuation Hospital at Gallipoli. After spending several months treating the wounded, Roose returned to London. Roose now joined the 9th Battalion of the Royal Fusiliers as a private. In 1916 he was sent to Western Front and had his first experience of trench warfare close to the village of Dainville. In August he won the Military Medal for bravery while fighting at the Battle of the Somme. The citation explained how he threw "bombs until his arms gave out, and then, joining the covering party, used his rifle with great effect".

While serving on the front-line Roose suffered from trench foot, a fungal infection brought on by prolonged exposure to damp, cold and unhygienic conditions.

Leigh Roose was killed on 7th October 1916 during an attack on the German trenches at Gueudecourt. Gordon Hoare, who before the war had represented England as an amateur footballer, saw Roose running towards the enemy at full speed in No Man's Land, while firing his gun. Soon afterwards, another soldier saw Roose lying in a bomb crater. His body was never recovered.

Within a few months of his own death, three of his former team-mates, Albert Milton (Sunderland), Wilf Toman (Everton) and Peter Johnstone (Celtic), were killed on the Western Front.

[Jonathan Saunders]

Many thanks Annie!

Regards,

Jonathan S

[leefer]

http://www.freewebs.com/captainbeecher/1910.htm

As a Swindon FC fan ive always been interested in Freddie Wheatcroft who played for us and died in WW1.

A sad note i concluded was that Swindons Wheatcroft played against Barnsleys brilliant Barthropp in the fa cup semi final in which Barnsley won after a replay to reach the final....its sad to think these two great players perished on a different field a few years later.

Incidently Swindons greatest ever player(maybe apart from Don Rogers) was Harold Fleming who played in these matches and scored nine goals for England also was in the war and ive often wondered if it must have been massively difficult for him to do so as he was very religious...to the point of refusing to play on a Sunday.

The link above may help you track Barthropps matches along with Swindons Wheatcroft.....and probably many other players who faught with distinction....it starts from 1888,with teams and goes on through the years.

[Dave W]

Jonathan

You ought to try to get hold of a copy of "THE LAST POST - THE DEATH ROLL OF SPORT 1914 - 1919", published by The Field Press (The Field Magazine) in 1919.

Apparently the magazine ran articles on casualties from various sports throughout the war, which were consolidated in the 1919 publication which is in huge A3 format. It has about 100 names (and brief obit details of many) per page, and about 30 pages of names. I doubt that it is complete.

It covers casualties in Oxford & Cambridge Blues, Athletics and gymnastics, fencing, boxing, cricket, football, golf, hockey & lacrosse, lawn tennis & rackets, horse racing polo & hunting, rowing, swimming, winter sports & yachting.

One problem is that the magazine considers both soccer and rugby football to be 'football' and from the entry it can be hard to tell the difference, but it should be a good reference.

Dave

[Jonathan Saunders]

Thanks Dave - I am sure this can be sourced at an archive somewhere so I will add it to the list of look-ups.

Regards,

Jonathan S

[Terry_Reeves]

This might be of passing interest:

http://www.donmouth.co.uk/local_history/gr...r_football.html

TR

[Jonathan Saunders]

This might be of passing interest:

http://www.donmouth.co.uk/local_history/gr...r_football.html

TR

Some interesting pictures!

[Steve Newman]

Off the same web site

http://www.donmouth.co.uk/local_history/St...e_football.html

If you look at the boys team, they include a certain Patrick McLaughlin who later was a CSM with the 1/Northumberland Fusiliers and was KIA on March 27, 1916. He played most of his football in the NE but had spells at Fulham and Southend along the way.

For his story and those of the Southend United players killed I have put a PDF online here

Or as I know some browsers don't like links you can cut and paste:

http://www.wickford-war-memorial.com/Image.../Blue_Army2.pdf

Still always looking for more players from any team....

Cheers

Steve

[Glesga Highlander]

There is a memorial garden to his memory at Sixfields. A couple of seasons ago when Spurs played Rangers in a pre-season friendly the supporters of both clubs played football for a Walter Daniel Tull Memorial Trophy...I believe the Rangers Supporters won the trophy. Send me you address and I will send you copies of all the suff that I have on him.

[Jonathan Saunders]

Not sure if these men have all been mentioned before - apologies if they have:

Millwall Club: J. Dines, C. Green, G. Porter amd J. Williams.

http://lewishamwarmemorials.wikidot.com/me...w1-war-memorial

Regards,

Jonathan S

[larney]

I don't know if this man has been mentioned, but Herbert Lewis Bithel was a former Bolton Wanderers player who served with the 15th Welsh. He was killed on 18 March 1918.

Steve J.

[Steve Newman]

Hi Steve

I am keeping a database of players found as and when they come up and Bthel was not yet on it which is surprising be a Bolton players that was an established team and where I would've expected him to be obviously in the football league records, so thank you for that addition.

Jonathan,

The Millwall players are all fairly common names so makes it harder but I think we can ID them...

J. Dines I believe to be 2/LT Joseph Dines of 13/Liverpools KIA 27/09/18

C. Green I think is Charles Edward Green of the 17/Middlesex KIA 28/04/17

G. Porter is harder but I believe he could well be 'Reg' George Porter of the 18/Middlesex KIA 14/07/18

J. Williams is James William 'Jack' also of 17/Middlesex who was KIA 5/9/16 and had previously had spells with Bury, Accrington Stanley, Birmingham and Crystal Palace.

Hope that helps and keep them coming!!

Best wishes to all

Steve

[AlanCurragh]

While wandering around Wikipedia, I came across this article about Alphonse Six, a prolific goalscorer for Bruges, and Belgian international, in the pre-war years. He was killed in August 1914

Alan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_Six

[Jonathan Saunders]

While wandering around Wikipedia, I came across this article about Alphonse Six . . .

Thanks Alan - he is a worthy addition.

Regards,

Jonathan S

[krussell]

Guys you may find this link about my beloved hammers of interest to you.

http://www.kumb.com/article.php?id=2470