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Jonathan Saunders

Footballers died

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Mark Hone

Here is a photo of the Aston Villa 1920 FA Cup-winning team. Most of the players had of course returned in the previous year from wartime service. The imposing figure of Sam Hardy can be seen on the back row looming over the chairman's left shoulder. Perhaps he was placed there to ensure that the cup wasn't pinched while in Villa's possession, as it had been in 1895!

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Michael

Mark

That fantastic, thanks a lot mate. If you've got a bio I'd very much appreciate a copy. My oppo took a copy of his service record at the PRO, do you want a copy?

Michael

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Chris_Baker

I think the Villa player kneeling second left is Frank Barson, who once scored with a 30-yard header, and was a real tough nut.

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Mark Hone

Well spotted Chris-2nd left is Frank Barson, born in Sheffield. A hard nut indeed-he was rumoured to have once pulled a gun on the Villa manager and was the most suspended player of the era. He played one game for England. Don't know about his military service, if any. His 30-yd effort is supposedly the second longest header ever scored. The furthest was also by a Villan-Peter Aldis in 1952. (That's enough Villa trivia-Ed.)

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Andrew Hesketh

If there are any Hull City fans out there (a very long shot I know) can you give me a first name for 'Davies', the goalkeeper? He's on my list of Tibshelf, Derbyshire men who survived the war - and with just the surname to go on I'm not going to get very far! <_<

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Guest Hussar

Interestingly, if you check out Item No. 2194258900 on ebay at the moment,

you'll find this. It's currently 50p, no bids ( and NO, it's not mine!!)

The players are as follows

BASE M.T. FOOTBALL TEAM. SALONIKA GREECE.. DEC.2ND 1917. PLAYERS. TOP ROW. J JACKSON[CHESTERFIELD] T .WILSON [QPR] J. HICHMAN[ EAST HAM]. T.D.CAMPBELL[ WOOLWICH ARSENAL &CHELMSFORD.] G. STEVENSON.BOTTOM ROW. RAKESTRAW. [bLACKBURN ROVERS] J.HOUGHTON .[NORWICH CITY]. CAPTAIN. SYMONS.[ PLYMOUTH ARGLE] .G.E.TRAVERS. BARNSLEY &MANCHESTER UTD].BRADSHAW .[bURNLEY] D.TAYLOR.

Don't know who survived and who didn't as this is a game for women and children!! :P

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Jonathan Saunders

Hussar this ebay lot isnt an original but a copy. The names are mostly too common to make a CWGC look up but I found a J. Hickman ASC died in 1918 at home and buried at Brockley ... not quite East Ham but very close as the crow flies. Hickman was the goalkeeper and presumably an amateur with East Ham.

I will ignore yr last remark as it is a well known fact that footballers have to be finely tuned athletes comparable in car terms to a Lotus Elan, whereas rugby (??)players are more yr Ford Granada model.

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Guest Hussar

Signals,

Was it not a Lotus Elan, or some similar sort of sleek,fast car, that that complete t****r Will Carling beat in a race for comic relief or children in need?? :P

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HERITAGE PLUS

Hull City players who died whilst in the armed forces during WW1

LAVERY, Patrick

b. 1884, Northumberland d.25.09.1915

July 1905 to August 1906

League: 2 app 0 goals; FAC: 1 app 0 goals

LYON, Samuel

b. 20.11.1890, Prescot d.1916

December 1912 to June 1914

League: 6 app 1 goal

MORGAN, Douglas

b. 1890, Inverkeithing d. 01.01.1917

May 1913 to September 1915

League: 52 app 0 goals; FAC: 6 app 0 goals

TAYLOR, John ‘Jock’

b. 1886, Elgin d.15.09.1916

August 1907 to July 1909

LGE: 9 app 3 goals

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jhill

I am attempting to post a clipping from the Edmonton Daily Bulletin of (I believe) 12-Nov-17 on this subject. If it does not work I will be back in a moment to appologize.

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HERITAGE PLUS

BRISTOL CITY FC

TOMMY WARE - Goalkeeper - local lad made his Div.2 debut in 1911 and made the last of 58 appearances on 25 April 1914 in a 1-0 defeat at Fulham - KIA June 1915.

EDWIN BURTON - Forward - joined the club from Shildon Athletic in 1913. Made the last of 19 appearances (scoring 7 goals) on 24 April 1915 in a 1-1 draw at Birimingham City. KIA August 1916.

A.EDWARDS - Half Back- previously with Aston Villa and Newport County. Joined the club in 1912 making the last of only 4 appearances on 26 April 1913 in a 5-1 defeat at Bury. KIA 1918.

City finished 16th, 8th, and 13th in Division 2 in seasons 1912-13, 1913-14 and 1914-15.

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Hedley Malloch

The official history of Newcastle United contains a photo of the 1914 team and states that three of them died in the Great War. They were Thomas Goodwill, Dan Dungilson and Tom Hughes. Goodwill and Dungilson both joined the 16th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers (Newcastle Commercials); both were killed on 1/7/16 in the attack on Thiepval. Their bodies, if recovered, were never identified and they are commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial.

Hughes is harder to trace in the CWGC database, but there was a casualty of that name in the 27th NF (Tyneside Irish) KIA 1/7/16. This means that it is certain that two Magpies were killed on the first day on the Somme, and possibly three; and all in fairly close geographic proximity.

Two other former Magpies were killed during the War. Captain Tom Rowlandson MC, Yorkshire Regiment, was KIA on 15/9/16 and is buried in Becourt Military Cemetery in the Somme. He was an amateur who played in goal for the Mags, Corinthians and England.

The club history names a fifth player, Major John Fleming, East Yorks Regiment as KIA in 1917, but I cannot find him anywhere in the CWGC database. He played for NUFC between 1911-13 and afterwards for Spurs.

In addition NUFC lost three reserve players KIA; and two more in the flu' epidemic which followed the war.

And then there is D.S. Bell VC. It is uncertain if he actually played for Newcastle, but it is beyond doubt that he was on their books, making Newcastle the only current Premier League team who can claim a connection with this remarkable man. Curiously the NUFC history does not mention him. What this tee-total Sunday School teacher would have made of the behaviour of many modern professional footballers can be imagined.

Source: United: The First 100 Years by Paul Joannou, ACL and Polar Publishing, 1992

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StevieB

Although not exactly a famous footballer who died during the war (he wasn't a professional and he lived!), I thought you may find this intersting. My great-uncle Robert George Barker played football for the Royal Flying Corps in Canada. He'd had trials for Burnley just prior to joining up as an acetylene welder and was sent to Canada to work on the training squadrons at Camp Borden. He was the only enlisted man in a team of officers, presumeabley as a bit of a ringer. I have one of his footballing medals from when they played the American All Stars either from or in Texas. It is only a flimsy piece of brass in the shape of a Maltese Cross, but a nice family item. Attached is a (poor) photo of Uncle Bob and his wife Edith.

Sorry to bore you a bit of my family history. :blink:

Steve

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Jonathan Saunders

StevieB,

On the contrary, far from finding yr post boring its nice to know how proud you remain of yr Gt Uncle's service and football career, and quite rightly so.

Thanks to all who continue to add to names to this thread.

Sigs

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Neil Mackenzie

I have been reliably informed that Harry Hanger (5th Royal Irish Lancers, kia 23/3/1918) was a Crystal Palace player.

Neil

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Jonathan Saunders

There was a piece in the Times sports supplement last Monday concerning a book recently published (or about to be), called McCrae's Battalion by Jack Alexander (Mainstream Publishing - £15.99).

This particular battalion (16/Royal Scots) was formed from players and supporters of Heart of Midlothian FC. McCrae himself was the local MP and he did serve with the battalion for a small period. Might be of interest to anyone with a duel WW1/football interest.

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Guest Kim Price

Sorry to poke my nose in here, but...

Does anyone know if anything happened to the "1st world cup" players?

It was the Lipton cup, West Auckland against Juventus in Turin in 1909, and we won! but some of those guys must have fought in the 1st war.

A film was mad about it with Denis Waterman.

Apparently my gt Uncle was in it, but so far haven't been able to confirm this.

KIm

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Jonathan Saunders

Kim,

Thats a very good question. I have to do all my internetting in my lunch hr at the moment due to home pc having gone off for repair so cant look now, but will see if I can trace names of the team and see what is available on the web on bios and CWGC. Certainly a couple of the players went off to Italy to play professionally following that tournament and may have still been there when war broke out.

Out of interest who was yr Gt Uncle?

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Mark Hone

On the subject of footballers my grandad, ex-RFC fitter, was offered professional terms with Coventry City after the war. He turned it down as he was getting better money working in an aircraft factory. How times change...

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samesizedfeet

Another to add to your list - Oscar Horace Stanley Linkson, (KIA 8th August 1916) who was a regular on the Manchester United first team 1908 - 1912 before moving to Shelbourne in Ireland.

He returned to sign up for the Middlesex regiments 17th Battalion (1st Football).

I have been told he played for QPR during the war - but I've yet to find proof that they were still playing then (I've also been told by another source they disbanded when the ground was taken over as a barracks or a training ground)

I am currently trying to track down more information (via the PRO and National Archives) about the football battalion. Anyone who would be interested in what I find (if anything) do let me know

Zoe

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jim_davies

Not a well known player;

L/Clp Harold Springthorpe, Lincs Yeomanry.

Harold played for Stamford Town, before moving to Northampton. Here he played for Northampton in the Southern League. Harold again moved, this time to Grimsby, where he played for the "fisherman" for several years, and in 1910 received his amateur international cap, playing for England against Wales.

Harold also apparently played for "the Wanderers" (?), taking part in several footballing tours in continental Europe.

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Steve Bramley

Hi Jim,

Sorry to correct you here but G.T.F.C. are known as:

The 'Mariners',

Not the 'Fishermen'

Or as supporters of Scunthorpe and Lincoln call them...The Cod 'eds

Cheers,

Steve :D

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jim_davies

Steve,

The wife's always correcting me so I'm used to it :).

Being a former Lincolnshire lad, I've been to a few Grimsby games, and am aware of them being the "mariners". Not sure if they used to be the "fisherman" (from the November 1915 newspaper reporting Harold's death) or whether it was an error made at the time.

Jim

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