Scout uniforms in 1914? Lincs Regt

[DaveBrigg]

I have been loaned some photos from the family of William and Frederick Anderson of Brigg, Lincs. Fred served in the 1/5th Lincs. Will may have started in the same battalion but later gained a commission in the Leicestershire Yeomanry. Both survived the war. 

One of the pictures, taken almost certainly in July or August 1914, shows a group of seven young men in what appear to be modified scout uniforms. They have neckerchiefs, modified 'lemon squeezer' hats, belts and shoulder ribbons. The rifles look to be based on a flintlock design, possibly Snider-Enfields?

In another picture Fred is in military uniform but retains the hat, and he is wearing it again in a picture taken at the training camp in Luton where the battalion were sent after mobilisation. Another photo from the collection includes the scouts parading behind a military style band. 

Is this a case of a scout patrol enlisting together in 1914, or are the uniforms remnants from an earlier era along with the rifles?

[FROGSMILE]

56 minutes ago, DaveBrigg said:

I have been loaned some photos from the family of William and Frederick Anderson of Brigg, Lincs. Fred served in the 1/5th Lincs. Will may have started in the same battalion but later gained a commission in the Leicestershire Yeomanry. Both survived the war. 

One of the pictures, taken almost certainly in July or August 1914, shows a group of seven young men in what appear to be modified scout uniforms. They have neckerchiefs, modified 'lemon squeezer' hats, belts and shoulder ribbons. The rifles look to be based on a flintlock design, possibly Snider-Enfields?

In another picture Fred is in military uniform but retains the hat, and he is wearing it again in a picture taken at the training camp in Luton where the battalion were sent after mobilisation. Another photo from the collection includes the scouts parading behind a military style band. 

Is this a case of a scout patrol enlisting together in 1914, or are the uniforms remnants from an earlier era along with the rifles?

They are Church Lads Brigade.  The waistbelt clasps refer.  The boy second from right at rear is also wearing the circular CLB cab badge on his ‘slouch hat’.

Special Army Order of May 21, 1910 issued the  conditions under which Cadet Units could be raised and recognised. PublicSchools (‘fee paying’) Cadet Units became Officer Training Corps, Junior Division, and the "Cadet Force" was restricted to only Cadet Corps not associated with schools, or religious bodies. However, later on the various Lads' Brigades were invited to apply for recognition as Cadets and then receive Government assistance of £5 per Cadet Company of 30 Cadets per annum, a not inconsiderable sum for an organisation that relied on voluntary attendance and the support of parents. 

Like so many subjects the Christian ‘boy’ organisations that were once popular in Britain have been covered many times in the forum over past years.  Forum member @conijoniis the subject matter expert, but here are just a few threads you might find interesting:

1.  Church Lads Brigade: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/295413-help-required-to-identifying-the-regiment-of-the-soldier-in-this-photograph/#comment-3084099

2.  Church Lads Brigade Badges: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/169412-church-lads-brigade-clb-badges/#comment-1648001

3.  Boys Brigade: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/166916-boys-brigade/#comment-1633489

4.  Catholic BoysBrigade: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/247345-catholic-boys-brigade-cadets-photo/

5.  Boy Scouts: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/155058-boy-scouts/#comment-1494729

**British Boy Scouts were the subject of a War Office letter No.144/Miscellaneous/3098(C1) dated 10th August 1914 :-

" The service of Boy Scouts has been placed at the disposal of the Government, and General and other Officers Commanding who desire to avail themselves of their services should communicate with the County Commissioners. The Boy Scouts would be capable of carrying out such duties as the following, in uniform and equipped :-

a. Guarding or patrolling bridges, culverts, railway and telegraph lines, stores, etc, against damage by individuals.

b. Collecting information as to available supplies, transport and accomodation etc.

c. Handing out notices to inhabitants and other duties connected with billeting.

d. Carrying our relief measures among inhabitants.

e. Carrying out communications by means of dispatch riders, signallers, wireless beacons etc.

f. Assisting families of men employed in defence duties, or sick and wounded, in their homes.

g. Establishing first aid dressing stations, or temporary hospitals, refuges, dispensaries, soup kitchens, etc.

h. Acting as local guides and orderlies etc.

j. Forwarding dispatches dropped by aircraft.

k. Sea Scouts can assist Coastguards in their duties, and can assist in guiding friendly vessels in unbouyed and unlighted waters.

By November 24, 1914, the use of Boy Scouts and Cadets had been modified by War Office letter No.114/Miscellaneous/3302.

" The Army Council have recently had under consideration the question of the continued employment of boy scouts and Cadets of recognised Cadet Units in Commands, and have decided that to ensure uniformity in their employment the following conditions must be enforced.

1. That no boy scout or recognised cadet is to be employed on any military or semi-military duty such as the protection of or watching any vunerable points, or stores, or in situations where there is any possibility of their being brought into contact with the ememy.

2. That while scouts or recognised cadets may in future be employed as orderlies, messengers, telephone operators, or on other light duties connected with military offices, such appointments must result in saving the employment of a serving soldier.

3. That no scout or recognised cadet may be employed who is liable to attend school.

4. That no scout or recognised cadet is to be paid more that 1s 6d per diem.

Boy Scouts were awarded a War Service badge, to be worn above the uniform right breast pocket.

The 1914 War Service badge was awarded for 28 days unpaid service.

The 1918 War Service badge was awarded for 50 days unpaid service.

About 80,000 War Services badges were awarded during the war.

NB.  With regards to the use of the Territorial Force cadet association’s Martini Henry Carbines for musketry training see the photograph below.  The second photo is of a drummer in the Catholic Boys Brigade.

**information courtesy of forum member Lancashire Fusilier.

Edited 31 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

Interestingly the auxiliary soldier second from right in the lowermost photo is a bugler, and is marked as such by a rifles pattern bugle badge, which uniquely comprised of two instruments overlaid.  This commemorates the TF units lineage as a Rifle Volunteer Corps.  The same doubled bugle was incorporated in the special badge of a rifle regiment colour sergeant in full dress, but with some TF units favouring the same badge in drab on service dress, although that was in direct conflict with regulations. 

Edited 31 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[DaveBrigg]

2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Interestingly the auxiliary soldier second from right in the lowermost photo is a bugler, and is marked as such by a rifles pattern bugle badge, which uniquely comprised of two instruments overlaid.  This commemorates the TF units lineage as a Rifle Volunteer Corps.  The same doubled bugle was incorporated in the special badge of a rifle regiment colour sergeant in full dress, but with some TF units favouring the same badge in drab on service dress, although that was in direct conflict with regulations. 

Many thanks for such an informative response. Following your comments I have looked into the CLB in more detail and can see now that other aspects of the uniform also match up. It appears that Brigg did have a pre-war Church Lads Brigade (a news report mentions their parade to honour returning Boer War volunteers) but this fact was not widely known so you have added some knowledge for local historians. Well spotted for the bugler's badge.
The details you shared about Church Lads cadet units being established in 1910 makes me wonder now if the CLB photo was taken before mobilisation in 1914 and is not directly linked to the 1/5th Lincs while the picture with the bugler was a little later, after Fred had signed up. 

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, DaveBrigg said:

The details you shared about Church Lads cadet units being established in 1910 makes me wonder now if the CLB photo was taken before mobilisation in 1914 and is not directly linked to the 1/5th Lincs while the picture with the bugler was a little later, after Fred had signed up. 

Yes I think that’s likely.  The CLB existed before 1910, but the funded militarisation took place then.