boy scouts

[susan kitchen]

I've put this question on Battalions and formations along with another question. The other question got answered but this one did not. Wondered if i had put it in the wrong place. Anyway the question is did the boy scouts make much of a contibution to the War. ? Anyway sorry if i've done the wrong thing.

Susan

[Moonraker]

Boy scouts are among those said to have guided units of the First Canadian Contingent when they arrived at railway stations to the north of Salisbury Plain in October 1914. (Another guide is said to have been a local policeman on a tricycle.)The units usually arrived in the middle of the night after a train journey from Plymouth and had to march up a very steep hill in the dark to camping-sites on the Plain, some eight or more miles from where they had de-trained.

Boy scouts helped with chores at summer artillery camps based at Broad Hinton (probably east of the Swindon-Avebury road)in 1910 and 1911.

Moonraker

[kenf48]

 

Posted link on your 1st message.

My interest is the Scout Hut at Etaples. (note YMCA connection as per your above)

Ken

[Moonraker]

There's a WWI military/boy scout postcard on offer on

eBay

Moonraker

[stephen p nunn]

Thanks Susan. As far as the Maldon story is concerned they certainly did their bit. The town was a regular venue for summer army camps - the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Territorial Battalions of the Essex Regiment, for example, were here in 1913. Local lads, including those in the Scout Troop, joined in the manoeuvres (including my grandfather - Arthur Frederick Nunn 1900-1968 - I reproduced a picture of him with the Essex men on page 14 of my book)..

Regards.

SPN

Maldon

[susan kitchen]

Thank you for all your replies. They explain a lot. As i collect ww1 postcards I was given a photo album to look at with the opton of buying it. However most of the photos appear to be of scouts about 1910-1913. Then there are a lot of photos which look like army camps but with adults and what looks like to me to be scouts. These have no date and as i've no way of dating them i may very well leave it. Anyway it made me woder what they contributed to the War.

Susan

[NigelS]

They also collected fruit stones! Click I've also read elsewhere but can't give any references, that they collected 'recyclables' such as newspaper and similar that would be of use in the war effort, and acted as messengers, as did the Girl Guides; I would be very surprised - remembering that Baden Powell, the organization's founder, was a military man and hero of the Boer War - if there weren't similar war service badges awarded to Boy Scouts as there were to its sister organization's members, as discussed Here (with doubtless, back in those days, more 'boy' orientated activities encompassed of course!)

NigelS

[auchonvillerssomme]

There is a medal card on Ancestry for a man called Monck. H.W. Boy Scout senior leader who made an application for a SWB but was found to be ineligible 0n 13/10/1920. But interestingly by his name is the abbreviation MM.

[centurion]

They were also used to patrol stretches of inland waterways paying special attention to locks and sluices. Just leaving the wrong paddles up (intentionally or deliberately) could cause considerable damage and disruption. There are also photos of French Boy Scouts helping out on hospital barges.

[NigelS]

They were also used to patrol stretches of inland waterways...

Not just inland waters, apparently. I found where I read about messengers it was in Tim Jeal's book 'Baden-Powell' which gives this:

Just before the actual declaration, Baden-Powell had offered the Scouts' services to the Government. Since fears were entertained lest 80,000 German Nationals resident in Britain might suddenly disrupt communications by turning saboteur, the Commissioner for Police and the Postmaster General asked Colonel de Burgh for boys 'to watch telephone trunk lines and telegraphs between London and Dover'. Other boys soon watched reservoirs, acting as messengers in public offices, hospitals and Red Cross centres and helping the coastguard service. On 6 August,the Admiralty asked for 1,000 Scouts to be deployed on the East Coast; by the end of the war 23,000 would have taken part in 'coast watching'

(The same chapter gives that a quarter of a million scouts served in the forces of which 10,000 didn't return)

NigelS

[bargingalong]

When the War Office held an inspection of the Wigan Division of the Red Cross in July 1914, the local Scouts played the part of casualties in an exercise supposing the enemy had landed in Morecambe Bay and had penetrated south beyond Preston, with casualties being received by the Red Cross Auxiliaries in Wigan. From the Report of the Division's WW1 work.

[healdav]

I have a photo (not copyable) in a book that shows a boy scout demonstrating to a group of new soldiers how Baden Powell had taught him to cross a skyline or cross a railway line, without being seen.

[BereniceUK]

At least one Boy Scout died 'on active service.'

 

"A Boy Scout named Donald Dawson, aged 15, of Terrington St. John, died in the King's Lynn and West Norfolk Hospital yesterday morning. He was a member of a special troop of Boy Scouts engaged by the Admiralty to watch the coast at Terrington St. Clement, and was accidentally shot in the right leg with a shot gun held by another boy. He was removed to the hospital, where it was found necessary to amputate the shattered limb. Later the lad succumbed."

 

He's named on the Terrington St John War memorial.

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Norfolk/TerringtonStJohnMemorial.html

[alf mcm]

Frederick Walter Hailes served as an Orderly at No. 2 B.R.C. Hospital, Rouen, at the age of 14. His Red Cross record card is here. https://vad.redcross.org.uk/Card?duties=BOY+SCOUT&page=8&id=93060 Putting ‘Boy Scout’ in the search field gives a lot of other results.

A search on Findmypast using 'Scout' as rank also gives a lot of results https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/results?datasetname=british+army%2c+british+red+cross+society+volunteers+1914-1918&sid=103&rank=scout

Regards,

Alf McM

[The Scorer]

There's a Memorial in the Newport (South Wales) Civic Centre to the seventeen Scouts who died in action during the First World War.

 

The members were drawn from six troops in Newport. It is headed by the District Commissioner for Newport, Major Oswald M Williams, 1st Battalion, Monmouthshire Regiment, who died on 13th October 1915 at is commemorated on the Loos Memorial. Twelve of the seventeen have a known burial place and five are commemorated on a Memorial.

 

If anyone wants a copy of my research into this Memorial, please send me a PM with an e-mail address, and I'll send you a copy. 

  

[Fovant]

Boy Scout buglers were used to sound the all-clear after air raids and driven around in police cars.

 

One such Scout, Alfred Page (13), was killed at Romberg Road in Tooting during a Gotha raid on 31 October 1917 along with his father. A woman and two other children were injured.

[NigelS]

I'm sure I've posted this before, but it must have been on another thread. The Scout Association has a roll of honour for former Scouts & Scout Leaders who lost their lives in the Great War. It's available as a pdf https://heritage.scouts.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Scouts-First-World-War-Roll-of-Honour.pdf

 

Quote

There's a Memorial in the Newport (South Wales) Civic Centre to the seventeen Scouts who died in action during the First World War.

 

The members were drawn from six troops in Newport. It is headed by the District Commissioner for Newport, Major Oswald M Williams, 1st Battalion, Monmouthshire Regiment, who died on 13th October 1915 at is commemorated on the Loos Memorial. Twelve of the seventeen have a known burial place and five are commemorated on a Memorial.

 

If anyone wants a copy of my research into this Memorial, please send me a PM with an e-mail address, and I'll send you a copy. 

 

A search only finds three entries for Monmouthshire (one is Major Williams)  and one for Newport - this might even be Newport on the Isle of Wight! - so, letting the Scout Association know of your research should get them added. Not surprisingly Jack Cornwell is included but no mention of the VC! 

 

NigelS

 

Edit: other than Major Williams, none of the recently mentioned names (Page, Dawson & Hailes) seem to appear in the Scout Association's Roll of Honour

 

Edited 10 May , 2020 by NigelS

[The Scorer]

Thank you, NigelS … I'll have a look at that as soon as I can. 

[QUEX]

Callwell's 'Experiences of Dug Out' describes their role as War Office messengers.  See pp. 28-9 here:

 

https://archive.org/details/experiencesofdug00calluoft/mode/2up/search/scouts?q=callwell+experiences+of+a+dug-out+1914-1918

 

 

[The Scorer]

23 hours ago, The Scorer said:

Thank you, NigelS … I'll have a look at that as soon as I can. 

 

As promised, I've had a look at this, and very interesting it is, too!

 

Just to follow on from your comments as follows:

A search only finds three entries for Monmouthshire (one is Major Williams) -

Yes, I agree with that, with Major Williams being the only one specifically for Newport (Monmouthshire) as it then was.  

One for Newport - this might even be Newport on the Isle of Wight! -

I couldn't find that one - can you tell me which page it's on, please, and I'll check it.

Letting the Scout Association know of your research should get them added.

Yes, I'll discuss this with my local Scout contacts and ask them what they want to do. 

Not surprisingly Jack Cornwell is included but no mention of the VC! 

That is a surprise, particularly as I've seen mention of at least two other VC awards on the list. 

 

Thank you. 

[NigelS]

4 minutes ago, The Scorer said:

One for Newport - this might even be Newport on the Isle of Wight! -

I couldn't find that one - can you tell me which page it's on, please, and I'll check it.

 Page 100 of the pdf:  (Signaller J.E. Garrett 14 January 1917 R.N.R. Late Assistant Scoutmaster 3rd Newport Troop. Killed in action, January 14th. February 1917, pg 33)

 

NigelS

[The Scorer]

Just now, NigelS said:

 Page 100 of the pdf:  (Signaller J.E. Garrett 14 January 1917 R.N.R. Late Assistant Scoutmaster 3rd Newport Troop. Killed in action, January 14th. February 1917, pg 33)

 

NigelS

 

Thanks - I'd just realised that I did find him after all, and he is Newport (Monmouthshire), so that's two out of seventeen. 

 

I'll make contact with my friends in the Newport Scouts presently.  

[rob carman]

Maybe.  "Much" is hard to gauge.

 

I have half a dozen ebay, book, etc downloads of very ordinary photos of Norfolk Regiment men with Boy Scouts on coast watch in Autumn 1914.  All the images are with 1/6 Bn; none is with 2/6 or 3/6 which did not do coast watch and that may be relevant.  It is also interesting that all the photos were taken in 1914 rather than over the course of the War. 

 

Rob.

[SurreyYeomanry]

Oh! Frederick Walter Hailes was my grandfather and yes, he did sneak into the war when he was too young and work as a Scout at Rouen. I have a number of documents he left my dad and he was quite a keen photographer and so we have a number of photos of him and the people around him. He seemed to look after the horses a lot. I got the impression they used them to deliver messages - probably on the horses. He went back in WW2 with the Red Cross so I assume he learned enough as a scout there to be useful the second time around. I have a few of the images scanned and uploaded in this folder of my grandfather and great grandfather: 

https://www.flickr.com/gp/snailtrail/TY5Fiaj8R5

[healdav]

In WW1 a lot of Scouts became messengers in the War Office and Admiralty to replace soldiers (I wonder what their schools said?).

The same happened in WW2, except that some clever person decreed that they could not wear their uniforms. There was a lot of protest from the boys, and Churchill intervened and let them wear their uniforms.

I also once came across a reference to Scouts taking part in tests in the Thames of the river mines which were eventually dropped into the Rhine. And, of course, they were messengers on bicycles right through the Blitz (as were boy who were not Scouts). The then headmaster of my school (himself a veteran of WW1 with a Military Cross) encouraged 'his' boys to do this as he said that within a year or two they would be in the army and they had to get used to being under fire.