Some Officers of Kitchener's New Armies

[PhilBuzz]

As for the King's Own Museum, I have been corresponding with them since 24/12/2021, and have not actually had someone find anything on a William Slade Vincent.Jnr who was in the King's Own Royal Lancaster Regiment. 

All emails are addressed to:

kingsown@lancaster.gov.uk

On the website of the King's Own Royal regiment Museum he is listed as an officer with his number 2468.

Does anyone else have a problem with getting info from them?

Phil

Vincent William Slade British Army King's Own Royal Regiment Museum.pdf

[PRC]

Hi @PhilBuzz and welcome to the forum.

You'll have to forgive me but this was a few months back and there are over 270 posts so would take a while to digest and bring myself back up to speed.

Where I think we'd got to was that from the architecture we are fairly certain the picture was taken at Wadham College, Oxford. But I believe I'd come to the conclusion we could no longer be certain which particular intake this was and therefore the identification of the men present would remain uncertain. Other contributors to the thread may have different opinions.

Given the all round effort, I for one had hoped we were going to get this one nailed.

This was @adrian 1008 labour of love and I'm sure he may have some questions for you if indeed this was the OTC intake that William Slade Vincent Junior was part of.

Cheers,
Peter

[PhilBuzz]

Having finally secured a service record for William Slade Vincent Jnr, from the British Archives, there are two pages in his file that directed him to proceed to the Oxford School of Instruction, at Oxford University OTC, Oxford on 8th Dec 1915. See attached.

He is number 4 in the photo Adrian posted some while back.

His record showed he presented himself for a medical examination at the Hounslow Depot on 10/11/1915, was recommended for a temp. commission on the 12/11/1915. On 1/12/1915 he was appointed to a commission as a 2nd Lieut, Special Reserve of Officers, 3rd Batt Roll Lancaster Regiment and directed to the OTC Course on the 8/12/1915. He lied about his age and was 15 years old at the time. Born on 11/5/1899 he stated he was born on 11/5/1897. (But this lie eventually caught up with him when his mother, after being requested by the army, sent in his birth certificate).

He was awarded an MC 26/11/1917, aged 17.

More about him when I write his life story.

 

 

[PRC]

1 hour ago, PhilBuzz said:

He is number 4 in the photo Adrian posted some while back.

Going back through my old notes I believe from the uniform details number 4 was identified as an officer of the Durham Light Infantry and there was no unidentified officer of the Kings Own Royal Lancaster Regiment - the three K.O.R.L. men present were numbers 7, 41 and 45. Of course could be that the names attributed to those three individuals is incorrect.

Believe the consensus was that number 41 was the most likely match for William Slade Vincent - will correct the last list posted.

Cheers,
Peter

[PhilBuzz]

Sorry everyone. William Slade Vincent is number 7. (Big typo on my part). 

Another pre-war photo of him, shows him at St Peter's School, Adelaide - he's the cox and about 18 months younger at the time. (Autumn in Aust. is in April).

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, PhilBuzz said:

Sorry everyone. William Slade Vincent is number 7. (Big typo on my part). 

Another pre-war photo of him, shows him at St Peter's School, Adelaide - he's the cox and about 18 months younger at the time. (Autumn in Aust. is in April).

There's a breathless hush in the close to-night 

Ten to make and the match to win 

A bumping pitch and a blinding light, 

An hour to play, and the last man in. 

And it's not for the sake of a ribboned coat. 

Or the selfish hope of a season's fame, 

But his captain's hand on his shoulder smote 

"Play up! Play up! And play the game!" 

The sand of the desert is sodden red- 

Red with the wreck of the square that broke 

The gatling's jammed and the colonel dead, 

And the regiment blind with dust and smoke. 

The river of death has brimmed its banks, 

And England's far and Honor a name, 

But the voice of a schoolboy rallies the ranks- 

"Play up! Play up! And play the game!" 

 

This is the word that year by year, 

While in her place the school is set, 

Every one of her sons must hear, 

And none that hears it dare forget. 

This they all with joyful mind 

And bear through life Eke a torch in flame, 

falling fling to the host behind- 

"Play up! Play up! And play the game!"

[PRC]

2 hours ago, PhilBuzz said:

William Slade Vincent is number 7.

I do not claim any new IP for the above, all image rights remain with the current owners and restrictions on re-use may apply.

So the pictures on the left and right are known images of William Slade Vincent junior, and the question then becomes is Officer 7 in the middle the same man?

For me the jury is out. Part of the problem is the slightly different angles at which the heads were photographed. On the two known images the tips of the ears appear to be above the eyebrows, while the lobes are above the nostrils.

The angle of the photograph of Officer 7 makes it look like the tips of his ears are at best level, if not slightly below the eyebrows, while the lobes appear to be lower down on the head than the nostrils.

Due to the lack of detail on the right hand picture we are also left with only two images to consider the shape of the top lip and width of the mouth. I'm not at all sure about the shape being similar. And assuming that both individuals were looking straight ahead the corners of the mouth of officer 7 seems much further apart than in the picture of the young cox.

I can see the similarities between the two named pictures but can't yet see enough to say Officer 7 is the same man. Others may see things I've missed and come up with a convincing case for why they are all the same individual.

Cheers,
Peter

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

8 minutes ago, PRC said:

I do not claim any new IP for the above, all image rights remain with the current owners and restrictions on re-use may apply.

So the pictures on the left and right are known images of William Slade Vincent junior, and the question then becomes is Officer 7 in the middle the same man?

I think it’s a perfect likeness and would happily pick him out in an ID parade with that middle picture Peter.  No doubt whatsoever.

 I imagine that @Charles Fairwill be interested to see this development too.  That a young fellow of 15 years could attend and pass the course says a lot for the confidence imbued in him by his schooling.  When I see some 15-year olds today…well, enough said.

Edited 22 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Harry J]

I can confirm that No 36 is Lieutenant Maurice Elliff. In March 1918 he was part of 22nd Bn. Durham Light Infantry (Pioneers)

[adrian 1008]

Thank you Harry J and welcome to the forum