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Looking for a WW1 Military Medal, Private J. Cassidy 4685 Leinster Regiment

SLDreew

By SLDreew
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Ivor Anderson Major-General

Ivor Anderson

Posted
Posted (edited)

OK. Great. It's just that his birth, census & death dates are out by a year or two. We now know that he was almost 25 when he died in Jan. 1918.

Based on his will, we can say that he was aware that he had at least been recommended for a MM when he wrote it on 1st August 1917. It was obviously for an action prior to this date. The WD at the end of August 1917 contains this list of awards for August 1917. He is not on it, because he must have earned it prior to 1st August 1917 (date of will), but it was disputed at some level and only gazetted over 1.5 years after his death in August 1919.

I've put a link to this MM thread in the British Medal Forum MM thread. It may attract some knowledgable interest! :)

Screen Shot 2021-09-01 at 19.06.22.png

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Ivor Anderson Major-General

Ivor Anderson

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Yes, the WD is the best way forward for now!

If the MM was sold in Dublin in the 1970s/80s (pre internet period) it may not have travelled far and be still owned by someone in Ireland. I assume you have checked that it is not in a regimental museum?

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Ivor Anderson Major-General

Ivor Anderson

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11 hours ago, SLDreew said:

if the medal went to his fiancée I’m not sure whether it would’ve ended up with us or not.

The answer to this lies in the fact that Mary Murray married another soldier, Pte. Thomas Dargle, in Nov. 1919, over 1.5 years after J. Cassidy's death:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1919/09695/5516574.pdf

15 Upper Digges Street is the same address as on John/James' death certificate and on his August 1917 will. It also appears, along with 'Mrs Mary Dargle' (amended next-of-kin after their marriage) on Thomas' Dargle's discharge documents (13289 6th RDF) : https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1219&h=547792&tid=&pid=&queryId=2708c8ffdf3c8ccd1209385e3db730a1&usePUB=true&_phsrc=AHE14781&_phstart=successSource

Screen Shot 2021-09-02 at 05.22.25.png

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Ivor Anderson Major-General

Ivor Anderson

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7 hours ago, SLDreew said:

Okay I can't find anything on him in the War Diary so far but I'll keep looking

He may not have been mentioned, but he would have been involved in the Battle of Vimy Ridge in April 1917 and the Battle of Messines in June 1917.

The 7th July WD entry mentions some MMs, possibly for Messines, but no mention of Cassidy.

Cpl John Cunningham 8916 was posthumously awarded the VC 'for gallantry in action' on 12th April 1917 at the 'BOIS-EN-HACHE' (12 May WD):

https://www.thurles.info/2020/04/16/lest-thurles-forgets-cpl-john-cunningham-vc/comment-page-1/

There must have been other awards for Vimy. In April they had 5 officers and 57 ORs killed and 7 officers & 182 ORs wounded (+ 3 missing).

One Vimy Ridge MM (15026 Pte. Henry Kennedy): https://www.medalsofengland.com/medals.php?id=64&medalid=1856

In LG 9 July 1917:https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30172/supplement/6832Screen Shot 2021-09-02 at 06.15.38.png

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doyle3 Lieutenant

doyle3

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Enjoying following this thread. The pitfalls of Irish records/names/used/matching dates to ages etc

The Medal Index Card for young Cassidy shows that his Victory Medal and British War Medal were "Returned (1743 KR 1912) 8153/Adj". Did these two medals get back to the family along with the MM?

Upper Digges Street, like Summer Hill, would have been a crowded multi tenancy dwelling. 12 families listed in no 15 in the 1911 census

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mansion_House/Digges_Street__Upper/

I can't find any funeral reference in the newspaper archive on FindMyPast but these are limited. Other Dublin newspapers may carry some information about a funeral and may list some of the mourners e.g. Mary Murray. Long shot.

@museumtom may have some info in his database/book of Dubliners killed in WW1. Tom got a great photo of my Summer Hill Gt Grandfather from the Evening Herald archives for example.

 

 

 

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museumtom Lieut-General

museumtom

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I am just on my way out the door, I will have news later, but there is not photo of him in the Irish newspapers.

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Ivor Anderson Major-General

Ivor Anderson

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True. He does not appear in the weekly casualty lists as he did not die in action or of wounds, but in Dublin of TB.   I doubt that his death was put in the paper.

However, he was later recognised as a casualty of the war by the CWGC and given a CWGC headstone: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/899906/J CASSIDY/ The Army also issued him with a Silver War Badge!

The address, 15 Upper Digges Street, in his 1917 will and on his 1918 death certificate seem to confirm that it is the same man - James, who enlisted as John.

It is strange that the CWGC record him as the son of 'Mr J. Cassidy of 14 Court Street, Dublin' if his father died in 1910 and he enlisted in 1913?

Screen Shot 2021-09-02 at 10.16.46.png

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Jervis Lieutenant-Colonel

Jervis

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25 minutes ago, SLDreew said:

Thanks! I’m not sure he’d be listed as a casualty of the war as he died of TB after returning to Dublin.

Well he has a CWGC, so they attributed or linked his death to war service. (Possibly weakens lungs from gas attack). 

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SLDreew Sergeant Major

SLDreew

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Ah ok! I assumed he picked it up while in the war but that could be wrong.

I found mention of a Private Cassidy 3005 on 18th Jun 1917, but with the different number that’s probably a different person.

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Ivor Anderson Major-General

Ivor Anderson

Posted
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5 minutes ago, SLDreew said:

I found mention of a Private Cassidy 3005 on 18th Jun 1917, but with the different number that’s probably a different person.

Yes. That is Pte. Patrick Cassidy 3005. There was also a Pte. James Cassidy 2996 with 2nd Leinsters.

 

4 minutes ago, museumtom said:

Records are here.

His service records survive? I don't have FMP.

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SLDreew Sergeant Major

SLDreew

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Doesn’t this record say his date of birth was 12th Oct 1895? On his birth certificate it’s 4th Feb 1893.

 

Also I don’t see anything in the War Diary for 22nd May 1917

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Ivor Anderson Major-General

Ivor Anderson

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13 minutes ago, SLDreew said:

Doesn’t this record say his date of birth was 12th Oct 1895? On his birth certificate it’s 4th Feb 1893.

I can't see the full service record, but 12 Oct. 1895 would fit his age of 22 on the Jan 1918 death certificate and SWB roll.

No John or James Cassidy was born in Dublin in 1895.

12 Oct. 1895 conveniently makes him exactly 18 at enlistment on 12 Oct. 1913!! Perhaps this younger age went with his new first name at enlistment?

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doyle3 Lieutenant

doyle3

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Posted
2 hours ago, museumtom said:

I am just on my way out the door, I will have news later, but there is not photo of him in the Irish newspapers.

thanks Tom. Doubt there would be a photo but I know your data on WW1 deaths is huge and that there may be something there that isn't on FMP/Ancestry that might add more.

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Ivor Anderson Major-General

Ivor Anderson

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, SLDreew said:

Someone on the British Medals Forum said he would’ve been entitled to the Silver War Badge, the Victory Medal and the British War Medal.

Yes. I posted those earlier on. He also has a pension record card on the Western Front Assoc., but I don't have a subscription.

His medal index card (MIC) on Ancestry is mis-sorted under 'Lancashire Regiment':

Screen Shot 2021-09-02 at 11.28.36.png

Edited by Ivor Anderson
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TullochArd Brigadier General

TullochArd

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, SLDreew said:

Someone on the British Medals Forum said he would’ve been entitled to the Silver War Badge, the Victory Medal and the British War Medal.

............ and the MIC notes BWM/BVM as "Returned (1743 KR 1912)" suggesting these two are not "in circulation"?

Edited by TullochArd
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