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Looking for a WW1 Military Medal, Private J. Cassidy 4685 Leinster Regiment

SLDreew

By SLDreew
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SLDreew Sergeant Major

SLDreew

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Hi there! I'm very new here so please let me know if I'm doing something wrong! I'm trying to find my great granduncle's WW1 Military Medal. If anyone has any info on it that would be very appreciated!

Here is his information:

4685, Private, J. (James) Cassidy, Leinster Regiment.

Thanks!

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Michelle Young General

Michelle Young

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Welcome to the forum. I’d suggest that you also post this request on the British Medals Forum, I think they have a wants section.

Michelle

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Knotty Major-General

Knotty

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Hi there and welcome

For my sins I try to keep an up to date record of medals held by members of the Forum (information given is voluntary not compulsory, thread title “Here is a list of names on my…” 😁), and a quick check shows that his name & number are not listed by anyone taking part.

 

John

Edited by Knotty
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Ivor Anderson Major-General

Ivor Anderson

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On 31/08/2021 at 22:24, SLDreew said:

4685, Private, J. (James) Cassidy, Leinster Regiment

The Army new him as John Cassidy - according to his MIC, medal roll and SWB roll? He enlisted pre-WW1 on 13 Oct. 1913 (SWB roll).

I assume you have research his MM? It was an end of war one for Oct./Nov. 1918 - listed alone in the LG 20 August 1919 (the last MM gazette for WW1): https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31512/supplement/10577

I don't see him mentioned on the British Medal Forum.

He may get a mention in their later war diary as it was a sole award: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353590

Intriguing that his MM index card says 'Special Award FRANCE' (TNA ref. WO 372/23/89052) a retrospective award?:

Screen Shot 2021-09-01 at 14.36.56.png

Edited by Ivor Anderson
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Ivor Anderson Major-General

Ivor Anderson

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The 2nd Leinster War Diary entry for 20th December 1918 records the award of the VC to 4119 Sgt. J. O'Neill MM of D Coy., and 18321 Pte. M. Moffat D Coy. 'for conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty in October 1918'.

The following MMs were listed in the WD on 14th December 1918 and in the LG on 23 July 1919 (Cassidy's must have been approved later):

 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31469/supplement/9386

Screen Shot 2021-09-01 at 14.55.23.png

Edited by Ivor Anderson
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SLDreew Sergeant Major

SLDreew

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Ok thank you! I know though that he died in Dublin on the 2nd or 3rd of Jan 1918 so he couldn’t have been awarded it in October/November unless it was awarded after he died? I think another thread on here shows him being discharged around the date of death, but some sources show a John Cassidy instead. Do you think they could be the same person?

 

Also is there a way to find what he was awarded the MM for? And is it possible to find the medal? It was sold by the family in the 70s or 80s in Dublin, so it could be anywhere really.

Thanks!

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Ivor Anderson Major-General

Ivor Anderson

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Ah. I hadn't noticed the Jan 1918 death!

So John Cassidy died in Dublin Workhouse of TB on 2 Jan 1918 and was discharged from the Army on 3 Jan 1918 (Medal roll & SWB roll off Ancestry):

His CWGC headstone gives his DoD as 3rd January 1918: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/57621265/james-cassidy but only records an initial - no John/James: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/899906/J CASSIDY/

I think the 'Special Award' means that it was a retrospective award - earned prior to his death - late 1917?

Perhaps there was a dispute as to whether it was officially recommended prior to his death?

Screen Shot 2021-09-01 at 17.31.41.png

Screen Shot 2021-09-01 at 17.33.04.png

Edited by Ivor Anderson
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Ivor Anderson Major-General

Ivor Anderson

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Possibly, though he signed himself John on his Army will - he must have signed up as JOHN:

 http://soldierswills.nationalarchives.ie/reels/sw/1918_22/CassidyJ_E533015.pdf

I'll see if I can find him on the 1901 or 1911 census. Mary Murray was at 2 Upper Digges Street, Dublin. aged 19, in 1911.

John/James was 22 in Jan. 1918 (Death Cert.) so born c. 1895 and c.16 in 1911?

Screen Shot 2021-09-01 at 17.57.16.png

Edited by Ivor Anderson
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SLDreew Sergeant Major

SLDreew

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Thank you! I don’t know how to link things but I’ve got both censuses on ancestry, he’s listed as James on both, and born c.1894

Edited by SLDreew
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SLDreew Sergeant Major

SLDreew

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Ok. I know the medal was in my family until about the 70s, if the medal went to his fiancée I’m not sure whether it would’ve ended up with us or not. Could it be possible that Murray was supposed to say Murphy?

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SLDreew Sergeant Major

SLDreew

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Ah ok I’ve seen this, it says he died of TB, would that have been something he caught while in the war? Also if the will is dated 1917, he must’ve already been awarded the MM as it’s listed in his possessions. That means it couldn’t have been awarded any time after that. So he must’ve got it between 1913 and 1917. 
 

edit: referring to the findagrave not the birth certificate 

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SLDreew Sergeant Major

SLDreew

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The date matches but James’ parents were James Cassidy and Margaret Cherabine/Carabini. I think I remember something about a fire that destroyed a lot of Irish birth, death records so I’ll see if I can find a baptism certificate.

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Ivor Anderson Major-General

Ivor Anderson

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9 minutes ago, SLDreew said:

Also if the will is dated 1917, he must’ve already been awarded the MM as it’s listed in his possessions.

A very good point. He must have been aware of the MM award recommendation even though he had not yet received it. Best check the 1917 war diary.

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SLDreew Sergeant Major

SLDreew

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Ok, I’ve got something that might be right.

It’s a baptism that shows him being born in 1893. It’s not too far off, but it shows him as James Valentine Cassidy. The parents’ names match up too. The address is 131 Summer Hill which if right will be in the 1891 census if Mary Cassidy, his sister, born Feb 1891.The only problem is that his sister Rose Cassidy was born in 1893 too, although in Oct-Dec. 

956F3F42-5E17-4DA6-812B-F00B6250648A.jpeg

What is the war diary? And where can I look through it?

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Ivor Anderson Major-General

Ivor Anderson

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BC from https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02305/1864264.pdf

Very strange that he was born 1893 and was 22 in Jan. 1918.       4/2/1893 to 3/1/1918 is almost 25 years (24).

NB Most Church records were destroyed in the 1922 Four Courts fire, but not civil records.

Screen Shot 2021-09-01 at 18.46.10.png

Edited by Ivor Anderson
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SLDreew Sergeant Major

SLDreew

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It looks like they were living in. Boulton Street in 1901 and 1911. The 1891 census of Ireland would probably have the information needed, but unfortunately it was destroyed. 
I looked over the war journals around the time of his death and couldn’t see anything immediately 

The family tree on this side was done (as far as I am aware) by my cousin at a professional genealogy place, so I’m fairly certain on the parents’ names.

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Ivor Anderson Major-General

Ivor Anderson

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The CWGC site says that Pte. John Cassidy 4685 was the son of Mr J. Cassidy, 14 Court St., Dublin, BUT the 1911 census for 46 Bolton Street states that Margaret Cassidy was a widow in 1911: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/899906/J CASSIDY/

1911 - 46 Bolton St: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000082121/

They were at 24 Charles St. in 1901: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Inns_Quay/Charles_Street/1278958/

What evidence do you have that Pte. J. Cassidy 4685 is your James Cassidy aged 17 on that 1911 census? We do not seem to have proof they are connected?

Edited by Ivor Anderson
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