Jump to content
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Great War Rifles


Steve1871
 Share

Recommended Posts

The Army was mainly from Baden, so they got soldiers from same area, even they fighted in war on different places and cooperate with other units, the disposition was Karlsruhe the capitol city of Baden, like mentioned Julian in manual 1897 is there the combination of PD declared as Pferde Depot, also Horses Depot,normall it should be marked with the proper Train battalion in instruction as sample with 6 Train - 6.Train Battalion, Pferdedepot, Waffe Nr.10. ....6.T.P.D.10

In this case is the unit most real Ersatz unit of larger unit of  - XIV Army corps. There are possible other unit variants explanations as Proviant Depot which should be Supply Depot but this was mainly used with C as Colonne. In case of wartime unit, there could be other variation, anyway similar small units on army level are not extra mentioned in internet links, so this would be really problematic to find traces of.Maybe in archives or good literature about 14.Army korps.

Edited by AndyBsk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank’s, seems the German’s wanted to confuse not only the enemy on unit I.D., but also historians for centuries to come🤪

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 13/07/2021 at 22:31, Steve1871 said:

Thank’s, seems the German’s wanted to confuse not only the enemy on unit I.D., but also historians for centuries to come🤪

:thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Rifle #9.    
7/16/21

Kar.98az.  
 

Erfurt.   1918.        
Sn #. 2680.   Matching.     
 

very good to almost excellent condition.      Not sure what the large “B” on stock is for

4B0EF00B-61EC-459E-83B8-9DA40899FF06.jpeg

62CEEB4E-6AF9-42A8-A877-9B2CF83D985E.jpeg

C4FFAAF8-737D-41F4-AB57-E5317E19B4EA.jpeg

D4E4B1B5-64BE-4FDB-B1A1-097D5EC1D633.jpeg

0788342C-9366-47A4-9D08-B67F53A5C7A5.jpeg

FA613A94-4EA6-49C9-8C0A-042BCD11020F.jpeg

 

5B7FABD2-040B-4925-9258-8AA4FEECF46B.jpeg

C1146427-6397-4014-A27D-6926CC659D35.jpeg

F275C1D9-864F-4AD1-A565-BDE52AA3BEA8.jpeg

238EB0BF-EC32-4DC4-916D-E1F9533B40F7.jpeg

D0112338-F648-4162-B1E9-209B00FB89DC.jpeg

7310BEFD-2D42-4ACE-85BC-9DE7466E365E.jpeg

D27C9691-A55D-40F9-BCB5-3894D73114D0.jpeg

8CE41A40-4179-40BF-B899-530FCA39DAC9.jpeg

E1B6F71B-9428-4CA6-AC04-2E0475CD2048.jpeg

2E3EEF87-1434-4303-9556-C1B94EC5EA70.jpeg

CE5F23A6-998B-488F-8D09-A50ED40F52F6.jpeg

6157B9DA-FD31-4A03-A26F-77D4A9A58042.jpeg

2B310C1C-E48F-42F8-92D4-6C822D5D63B6.jpeg

A92B80E8-300A-4349-B9B5-931607549171.jpeg

B0755C1E-8B13-4326-9E95-5D955D25F72D.jpeg

B9CEED60-07F1-48E4-9523-79F52E5EBE63.jpeg

C91D9F0E-CA72-42C7-883E-7A91C3CEA39C.jpeg

97EE3E31-3D34-4DE3-8942-2F72DCFAB2E7.jpeg

 

73090949-C819-42B5-AE86-864C2596FAB2.jpeg

01D58977-9DBF-4479-9311-872119F28869.jpeg

Edited by Steve1871
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The full length photos are pixelated, simply enlarge on your computer screen and will sharpen up

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hope I no over do it with number of photos, just wanted show detail, and most photos on forum here show bayonets, but not detailed on the rifle 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like excellent piece of Karbine 98AZ, firstly the attached bayonets are certainly wrong on it, as it was used since 1915 only with full metall handle ersatz bayonets or bayonets with flashguard as the grips would blasted out by S98, as the flash is by short barell really heavy on muzzle. The flashguard on S84/98 was added because using on Kar98AZ.

The serial number is 2680 f when i am correct, and matching major parts, same on bolts, B on buttstock is mostly for material of wood of buttstock in that case Buche, also Beech wood when i am correct.

Edited by AndyBsk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For comparison - my two - a 1908 and a 1917(w/1920 stamp also) and the bayonets I display with them:

1908

DSCN0236.jpg.c79dc8e66359e48d1f1691dc1b88156a.jpg

DSCN0233.jpg.7db126bdfcdef3eac99e947913b52728.jpg

DSCN0232.jpg.0e62292400632d9cf69ca396d5e65a83.jpg

1917

DSCN0227.jpg.476c359583dc6222b2a73e0348e4c195.jpg

DSCN0224.jpg.cb27dd6732527bf91a40e7367fc1df34.jpg

DSCN0225.jpg.40be18a5f8986e5db70e9f76389d4c08.jpg

DSCN0229.jpg.5ad7aeac5f6db11a27585f52cd245b20.jpg

Pair

DSCN0231.jpg.0462c338248ddd5027f59a5cc1a57b06.jpg

 

Bayonets

DSCN0240.jpg.fb431d6f84097d94934a54ccea87e96f.jpg

DSCN0241.jpg.ccb9f688afab8d7e51975c51f198b6c6.jpg

DSCN0246.jpg.426c495c298476560677c543accfe8c4.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Chris, Great looking pair of rifles there!

Can I BORROW them for a little while 

Pleeeeeese😁. Thanks for posting

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Andy, I know only bayonets with the added flash guards were used ( mostly) on the 98AZ, the muzzle flash was found to slowly cook/burn the wood grips, originally standard bayonets like mine pictured were issued, till the problem was found.

S98.  98/05.  S14.  84/98.  And even a small number of 98/02 had flash guards added, so were used with the 98AZ

The 98AZ was still used by “ other” troops, but still found themselves on the main front from time to time, as all units that could be mustered for major offensives 

I was not trying to argue with my bayonet. I was in a rush to see how much / many guns, bayonets and other I could get done. I simply grabbed a bayonet. I on a rare load going home (had to fly last time, ). Will do more photo’s with flash guards. Glad you like

steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice Carbines by Chris, one already a Reichswehr era using, bayonets S84/98nA are proper one. The early one is nutwood certainly.

I understand Steve that You presented the best bayonet on it, this was only for correction, anyway in 1918 i dont believe they would used a S98 on Kar98AZ, personally for short rifle was used short bayonet, S98 was preffered with long rifle Gew.98

Secondly there is exact bayonets destined for Kar98AZ this short rifle was destined for Cavalry, Foot Artillery and Technician units in 1908. There are exact manuals in Ruediger what should be used. Emperor Order of 28.11.1914 is change of older non fireguard equiped bayonets with a proper ones metall handle pieces or flashguarded S84/98nA by units that used Kar98AZ. 

In war period were in majority used shorter rifles with short bayonets, easy explanation as S98 was stopped to production already in september 1914 as not usable in trenches. Offcoarse there exist exception that some service was equiped with Kar98AZ and got what was avialable, anyway the S98 bayonets should be equiped with flashguards in 1915,where is similar order as by S84/98nA. The Short rifle should be remains short so has not logical reason got a long 52cm bayonet, which the complet carbine-bayonet made too long, so the period pictures are occasionally with this completation are mainly photo sessions or second line service duty and guard units.

Edited by AndyBsk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Last weekend, got to get to my storage units, where my safes/collection is. 6th time in just over 2 years. I was in big hurry to oil, sort and photograph as much as could. Hallway too dark for many marking pic’s so go outside. A big problem there is using camera phone the screen fades half way out or more. I can take 10 pics of a single marking and sometimes ALL are out focus/trash

I been collecting 30 years now and the GWF is the first ( only so far) place I have tried to display my collection. 
 

only had 3 days this time. Took just over 1200 pic’s in 3 days, threw out 300 already. My next rifle,Gew98 was in rush to get “ other” markings, I forgot to do the serial number. It is matching I believe 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Rifle # 10.          
7/23/21

Gew.98 

Unit  10.P.4.219.           
10th Pioneer  Battalion, 4th Company. Weapon 219

Maker. D.W.M.  Berlin.       
1899.  First year production 

 

68D0D460-79B2-4BFB-A6BA-7E2C12AF71BD.jpeg

BD08D1B1-F89B-400F-A8ED-1BFC000A9DF4.jpeg

3C5C7A36-967C-43EF-877E-DACAA934DFB1.jpeg

2B14C1EA-F7A3-47C9-B7C5-C6C1D6601246.jpeg

A95830E4-36D9-45B9-A441-476BC41BC061.jpeg

 

9E723A08-6349-4DEC-AA24-A71686E552E6.jpeg

97CA2B52-4F3F-4A7D-A007-B12FDFDE1C13.jpeg

4ACA2BB5-0EE7-47FC-B5BD-7CAC3C7EC64E.jpeg

6352CBE1-CF13-4799-86F4-887C41AC4D7B.jpeg

CA3D51C0-D6C2-4DC9-9690-270CE0B6049F.jpeg

144A7AE7-818C-4872-AA68-BDE519E1D28D.jpeg

C04757F6-8008-4CE5-9712-53C3E6EC6AE4.jpeg

02661949-D3F2-4ECC-B750-29DFABD39B2B.jpeg

Edited by Steve1871
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like a nice early Gew.98 rifle made by DWM, correct deciphered unit. The rifle probably went through Revision Commision possible by recalibering to the Spitz round, when the sights were upgraded for new 1905 round. is the bolt serialed to the rifle?

Looks excellent with the S98/05nAS. I personally would add any of Your excellent S98 long bayonets to it.

http://genwiki.genealogy.net/PB_10

The last one photo with scarce Werder S69/98 conversion has a austrian Werndl hook so the scabbard is mixed there.

Edited by AndyBsk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hay Andy, You commented earlier on that scabbard, it great that a frog must have been on it for very long time, as it protected the original green paint, a fair amount at least , to see what color it was originally. I believe, however it happened, the scabbards were paired to these very rare conversions. I took care to take many photos of this 69/98, itself and mounted / close up, for a post after I get in a fair amount of these S.71 bayonets I working on , the other post

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Steve this is possible, but very emergency done as the bavarians had enough Werder 69 bayonets avialable and only minor Werndls, Werndl M1873 is minimum 1-1,5cm longer blade as is Werder. Question what frog was used there, but there are various possibilities real, when green/grey  paint it could be too austrian used.

The rifle mostly started life by Guard unit as so early made, the 10Pionier Battalion was mostly changed post recalibering to new Spitz round, possible done post 1905, so the best choice on it would be the S98/05aAS bayonet probably. When You look at the unit disc in butt it could be replaced or reserialed by removing of surface from the disc. Screwdriver spure on side of the disc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Glad you like it. Take care, got to go bed now, lot of mileage to cover tomorrow 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Rifle #11.         
7/30/21    

Remmington  Mle 1907-15           

Very good to exelent condition with sling, have bayonet/scab/frog somewhere. I read and watched on line that France received these rifles but they failed some strength test. Not sure. Do not know if they were issued to reserve or what. Only thing on this rifle is a lot of dried grease on bolt and bolt parts. So nice, could be unfired. 
 

Also have Mle 16 ( next rifle)

 

 

B876974E-A3B0-47D4-832E-AB52003BCE9B.jpeg

725792E3-0BA0-4638-9ADD-817DF2625BDF.jpeg

1CE7AFB1-779D-4FD3-BA71-ACE17E9B98E8.jpeg

13027017-7DFA-4B2B-A09B-9C194D7A036E.jpeg

EF8B1ADD-CC4F-4FF3-A487-D594A1148F18.jpeg

E4B889E1-7DB4-4EAC-91E8-680F1B8E35CE.jpeg

208E3707-5C32-47BD-8F59-B394423146E5.jpeg

 

73D5B22B-DDD9-41FF-A778-072E1609293A.jpeg

955F6725-74BD-46AB-875F-5D1109BC65E2.jpeg

FE4BB449-DF42-4BFE-971A-56AE996F63AF.jpeg

C679A91B-6475-41F7-A637-1EEB3E972B68.jpeg

5958014F-DE65-4A73-9DC6-B1D8D956D1F5.jpeg

C10BE7B6-EF2C-4553-BC6B-139716EFC84B.jpeg

Edited by Steve1871
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of my Berthiers (carbine and rifles) CAN BE SEEN IN THIS THREAD

Very nice Remington Steve! mine is complete but a bit more battered than yours. Do you have a Remington made bayonet for it? It took me ages to find one!

berthiers.jpg.0dbb3c77f6d76c69a6afc700abf43eec.jpg

 

Here's how one M1892 carbine is displayed

mannequin.jpg.be6ac1609c91733b58561e3912b48c3f.jpg

Chris

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes Chris, have a remmington bayonet, exelent if I remember. If you keep showing “ family” pic’s of your collection I do not know weather to cry or just be jealous. You have a nice collection. Only carbine I have is that Turkish “ Forrestry carbine, and no Lebel. Great uniform rig there. 
 

If you could, another group pic with the bayonets fixed for me to drool over

Pleeeeese😊.  Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Steve i am not expert in french rifles , i see there two rifles one untouched Remington and other of Saint Etienne production both M07-15 configuration.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes Chris, have a remmington bayonet, exelent if I remember. If you keep showing “ family” pic’s of your collection I do not know weather to cry or just be jealous. You have a nice collection. Only carbine I have is that Turkish “ Forrestry carbine, and no Lebel. Great uniform rig there. 
 

If you could, another group pic with the bayonets fixed for me to drool over

Pleeeeese😊.  Thanks

Thanks Andy, that was one pic, delete it. Did not know I have 2 1907-15’s.  I do not k ow what I have I guess. I have a few rifles

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rifle #12          
8/6/21

Berthier Mle  M.16.      
 

Maker. St. Etienne.      
Sn. E 6026.            
Above that there is a #55. And space then a faded 2??   Maybe the M.16’s were upgraded and remarked. I really do not know much on French rifles, sorry. Stock has it’s share of nicks, scratches, living through the trenches, not bad. One thing odd to me, as many of you know from British rifles/carbines, a brass pin or two would be used on hand guards to secure the clips underneath to clamp on to barrel. On this rifle, there are 2 , larger Wooden ones . Was this common on these rifles?

EC5FBF2F-0AF5-44D1-8D96-9BD66579766C.jpeg

A767DE33-FA05-4F0F-B590-952C8C6478B8.jpeg

BDB563A0-F494-486D-B9DC-344E53E251B9.jpeg

58FB156E-9B9A-4D83-AF4F-2731C01C30ED.jpeg

0C6C3B1B-549A-44D6-96FC-8A60CC7F2B52.jpeg

324DA3BF-6040-4C36-9CC2-78D2542BC9F6.jpeg

68B33091-2642-49AB-8A29-96756F120E05.jpeg

A8D47409-8A5E-4F92-AEFB-05BD37CD02F2.jpeg

FECEE5D1-46F3-4509-A0D9-7AF4DF9008CE.jpeg

AB140DB0-805E-4BAC-B693-F6031424CCC3.jpeg

4686018D-982B-4CF9-BFDD-EFF01D2BC997.jpeg

39CF5B52-2A23-4DA5-B831-81FB5B279F92.jpeg

14C532C0-1F6F-4DC9-8610-E51F01918640.jpeg

8BE247CB-94CD-4828-8B24-31B29C6EE707.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Both Rifles together. Do not know if rear band is on backwards or not.

DF46B786-9625-4FD8-8573-B04405871DA9.jpeg

97ECC382-1CD7-4EC2-B461-6D1F305E2169.jpeg

D1550BAA-AF0C-4877-8996-877980BB655B.jpeg

89D6F608-362A-4590-AAC4-0175E2D44CF6.jpeg

2B9AE3F7-9C68-4328-9B8A-162CE4113C33.jpeg

B7341264-BAE8-4783-8609-03C276070D9C.jpeg

8D8E5145-822B-411D-A809-56D5D0840C98.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like a nice french rifles, normally it should be serialed barell, bolt, magazine body and buttstock with one serial number, the M16 could be refurbished from older M07/15 rifle or already  made so as new one post 1916.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...