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Remembered Today:

Great War Rifles


Steve1871
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Why it should be something else, i is series letter as normal by other rifle german production. You should get some good literature. By Gew.88 is too small case letter a series designation.

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=66843 link with d series

What wrote H.D.Goetz i:Die Deutschen Militaergewehre und MPs  1871-1945  about Gew.91  the carbine was wrongly declared as rifle - Gew.91, as this have a short lenght the only difference to Kar.88 is the stacking rod on front of butt, under barell to stacking carbines into pyramide, the Gew.91 were major used by Foot Artillery so the muzzle piece could be from the unit where it was used.

http://genwiki.genealogy.net/Fuß-AR_2

The 1891 time frame were large state Armorys involved in production of Gew.88 so the short rifles and carbines were produced early by private firms of Suhl area, Haenel and Schilling produced a 200000 pcs- so the i range is about 100000 range fully correct. Barell lenght of 43,5cm is very short and brings unreal shooting to distances 1200m, even by the kick that made the hot ammo, mainly the spitz round.

I would think unit normally was stamped on muzzle ring but it could be too on lower ring of buttstock, and the unit was later removed? or as mentioned it was a piece of depot, as the condition is very nice of the carbine.

Edited by AndyBsk
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Just thought odd to have lower case  i instead of a capital letter, that was all

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Understand You but as You have a large collection of rifles, compare the serialing with Gew.88 or Gew.98 and You will see what is there for serial letter ranges, some producers probably preffered by other models upper case letters.

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Thanks, still a nice rifle/karbine,  really like the first year production!

Hope you are having a great weekend, I driving as always. Have a beer or two for me😊

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Thanks,i have already two pilsen by watching football of finale european combat between England and italy. Offcoarse excellent carbine.

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CJM_0111.jpg.f7760c5558c8bc39f875161e8ecbba7a.jpg

CJM_0113.jpg.1b3360c771206478db23015918c21990.jpg

CJM_0116.jpg.a3cb27abaaaa5488216ec8b8c9dd31cf.jpg

CJM_0118.jpg.f65a7447b295c996f68b9935dc0b75e4.jpg

 

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That is great.  You match my first year production! That original sling? I heard the Kar.88 had it’s own sling, but I would not recognize it if someone handed me one🥺

Unit marked? Again, post it, share with the forum, more and a little brighter photos would be great. Thanks

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The sling was on the Kar when I bought it - it appears to match those shown in illustrations but is unmarked and I have insufficient knowledge to know whether it is original.

No unit marks on the Carbine.

Chris

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Still nice to have an 88 carbine in any collection, thanks for sharing, 

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As You could see there is on Chris piece too lower case c range, i believe on lower ring is some stamping? possible remains of units? any detailed photo of that area?

Edited by AndyBsk
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7 hours ago, AndyBsk said:

 i believe on lower ring is some stamping? possible remains of units? any detailed photo of that area?

Actually - now you mention it I just checked my notes and you are correct there is a mark there, I had mis-remembered -- I will photograph it later today.

Chris

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The markings are a little worn but appear to be

E.PT. XIV. 10.   

CJM_0121.jpg.5c18516ebd34e663035f7aa603593f78.jpg

CJM_0122.jpg.ae687ad8317a374076bab00fd934f737.jpg

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E.P.T.,  you got me stumped

T is usually train/Bahn. I think, or Telegraph, and P usually Pioneer but that letter combo. 
Prehaps Andy or Julian will know

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I  personally dont believe there is T in unit? as it would be higher letter as the others are, possible there is E.P? XIV -  it could be Ersatz Pioneer Battalion ? of XIV Army Korps , weapon nr.  10 as real. Should be looked to 14.Army corps disposal units of war period. In front of E letter could be digit? or there is a crown letter proof of the ring. Question is too is the second letter P or other unfortunally not fully visible?

Question are too the standarts of unit marking in Baden XIV army corps which could be little different as prussian parts?

Edited by AndyBsk
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Given the weapon type I wondered if it might be Ersatz - Pferde  (I have seen E. P. Depot) and the only T that seems to make sense is Train ?

I will rephotograph in better lighting and use a proper camera.

Chris

Edited by 4thGordons
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I believe we did discuss this some time ago when I first got the Kar:

SEE HERE

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EPD could be real,Eisenbahn i dont know,question is where was used Kar.88? by cavalry,so there should be answer about the unit.same as fix is Baden 14.Army corps

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Not sure it helps much

There is a crown inspection just to the left of the unit marking. The band is also numbered on the other side with the last three digits of the serial

E-PT.jpg.d6f986d7a055298738261af1efea9620.jpg

Here is the middle letter with less glare - my best guess is a T . If it is a D then the complete front is missing

midd.jpg.78fac832f7b860149ecac25bab121f05.jpg

Edited by 4thGordons
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By T there would be dot nearer as here, thanks for the additional pictures, i would tend to E.P.D. XIV army corps, Julian has the M1909 manual, so the Pferde Depot? teoreticall could be real, as it has connection with cavalry or mounted units.

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Hey Chris, what does PFERDE. Mean? Never heard of that word 

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17 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

The markings are a little worn but appear to be

E.PT. XIV. 10.   

CJM_0121.jpg.5c18516ebd34e663035f7aa603593f78.jpg

CJM_0122.jpg.ae687ad8317a374076bab00fd934f737.jpg

Hmmmm! Well, the XIV is an Armee Korps, no problem there - basically all Baden units, I believe. BUT, as far as I can see, it never had its own Eisenbahn unit... So, IF an 'E', then Ersatz would be my guess, and so Ersatz Proviant Train, and so no Company number. It did cross my mind it could be an 'F' not an 'E', which would give us Fuhrpark-Kolonne Proviant Train.

I should add - this is 1891, right? So I was working from the 1877 regulations for Ersatz Proviant Train. But the 1909 regulations would give the same, and both 1877 and 1909 would give Fuhrpark-Kolonne Proviant Train.

Julian

Edited by trajan
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1 hour ago, Steve1871 said:

Hey Chris, what does PFERDE. Mean? Never heard of that word 

Horse! 

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Yes Horses as plural, Pferd is Horse in german. Possible it was part of Train unit, or larger units that was under Army Corps, anyway there are only small cavalry units by Baden. I personally dont see there a T letter so hard to say. As no visible stacking rod i assume its Kar.88. When looking where are the dots between letters it looks like E. is clear there, the next 2 letters are more problematic, could be PD or something else. Clear is too the XIV army korp unit, same as this unit was small by 10 numbering. No companies. EPD would be real, same as some train units parts? The manual of 1897 would be the best choice, but this is Baden dont forget.

Edited by AndyBsk
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Hey Julian, both you and Andy agree Chris Kar.88 unit marked for Baden state, What would denote Baden and not Prussian or other?? Learning here 

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Is it that the XIV Army Korps was Baden

Army Korps had a “Home” City or state , but in Great War were of coarse mobile, becoming the front lines and fighting

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