Steve1871 Posted 23 December , 2021 Author Share Posted 23 December , 2021 Thank’s, main thing is I like it and think it correct! Helps the “ Set”, all need now is an early waist belt ( no longer exist anywhere) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 29 December , 2021 Author Share Posted 29 December , 2021 Rifle #26. 12/28/21 I.G. 71. Mauser Rifle. The original I.G.71 rifle had, by the time of the Great War had been long obsolete, being replaced by the I.G. 71/84. And Gew.88. Gew.98 rifles. That said, when war was declared, the I.G.71 was brought out again to free up the more modern rifles for the front . A large number had been sold off on the surplus market, but Prussia , still having the bulk of these rifles in storage began handing them out as well as requesting all veterans groups to hand them in/ with receipts. At first, guards and bayonet practice were duties,then prison guards, border guards, some were used in the rear area on medical, hospital trains ( Bahn) as guards, there are enough pic’s out there of reserve troops with them in the beginning. In the African colonies, The Germans had been using the Gew.98, but as the war started,1914, the colonies had 1209 original 71 rifles on hand, 15,430 71 Jaeger rifles and 19,604 Gew 98 rifles, also a number of 71 Karbines. The African native troops under the Germans were using these older 71 type rifles. I never have found out what happened to these rifles in Africa during the war, If the Native troops actually used then I. Battle or not, I have never seen or heard of any British reports of collecting any from deserted garrisons so they must have taken them at first? Just a mystery. One side note here, some places, they were taking the BRASS trigger guards for the brass. But if they were through with them,they would not have replaced the brass trigger guards with Steel ones,I have 2 or 3 of these. The I.G71 was never used as front line, but simply as something for the home front, again guards ect. To free up the Gew88 and 98 Since the GWF if a British Forum, I decided to start with a British made one. My rarest 71, only British make I have ever seen. Bet they turn up ‘Cross the pond there now and then?! I.G. 71. ( Mauser) Date 1875. Maker. National Arms & Ammunition Co. Ltd. Birmingham England Serial #1073 e matching Overall, metal is silvery/ in the white, finish is worn away., no cleaning rod, have spares, no problem. I have read that the British contract was split between 2 companies, ( maybe both owned by a parent company?). Do any of you know anymore on that please?! The butt plate is unit marked, but I have to leave this one to the experts, 2.G.G.L.R.6.53 Can any of you guys explain the various British markings/ proofs? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 29 December , 2021 Share Posted 29 December , 2021 (edited) The regimental marking should be for the Kaiser Franz Garde-Grenadier-Regiment Nr.2, 6.Kompagnie, Waffe Nr.53.... a very prestigious Garde unit. Not certain but the L could stand for Leib as in Leib-Regiment when they were designated as Life Body Guard to the Kaiser. Fascinating rifle made in Birmingham, the initial contract with National Arms & Ammunition Company was only for 75,000 rifles. Cheers, SS PS. Only part not matching is the front band which attaches the sling as it is stamped 1075 with a different prefix ... very close number though.! EDIT. Another British company, Greenwood & Batley Ltd were also contracted to supply these Mausers but I believe in separate contracts to NA&AC. Edited 29 December , 2021 by shippingsteel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 29 December , 2021 Share Posted 29 December , 2021 (edited) Certainly very interesting rifle, personally i dont known about english production to date, the imperial proofs are visible there, i assume the unit is as declared the SS question is the Leib as typically used by Bavaria, could be Leib or LinienInfanterie ? or Landwehr Regiment in that case. For confirmation should be looked at manuals of 1877. more real is the unit is for 2.Garde Grenadier Landwehr Regiment 1870/71 Name: 2. Garde Grenadier Landwehr-Regiment Garnison: I. Bataillon: Hamm II. Bataillon: Coblenz III. Bataillon: Düsseldorf Edited 29 December , 2021 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 29 December , 2021 Share Posted 29 December , 2021 Steve, regarding the use of the obsolete weapons in Africa, here below is an old thread on the subject which you may find of interest. Cheers, SS https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/181664-gw-rifles-in-africa/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 29 December , 2021 Share Posted 29 December , 2021 5 hours ago, shippingsteel said: The regimental marking should be for the Kaiser Franz Garde-Grenadier-Regiment Nr.2, 6.Kompagnie, Waffe Nr.53.... a very prestigious Garde unit. Not certain but the L could stand for Leib as in Leib-Regiment when they were designated as Life Body Guard to the Kaiser. To paraphrase a comment elsewhere, that is quite INcorrect, me old mate, ... The 'Kaiser Franz' regiment abbreviation format was 'K.F.R.X.XX. And 'L' was never used as an abbreviation for 'Lieb', as far as know, except for the 1872 Bavarian regulations section 2, where 'LR' is for 'Infanterie-Leib-Regiment' . 4 hours ago, AndyBsk said: more real is the unit is for 2.Garde Grenadier Landwehr Regiment 1870/71 Name: 2. Garde Grenadier Landwehr-Regiment Yes, much more like it... But the 1827 regulations offer this for tthe actual unit: - '2.G.G.L.II.X.XX', with a Roman-style II, as used for Landwehr Bataillons. Perhaps an 'unofficial' marking with 'R' for regiment? Maybe a pre-1877 Prussian marking? Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 29 December , 2021 Author Share Posted 29 December , 2021 (edited) Thanks You guys. SS. Yes, I have those pic’s from the web as well, about 40 pics in all.but thanks for posting.The main thing is if the 71 Mauser were used by the native troops in the war, even in the beginning? If they were not going to be used, why take them? As the Germans were chased out of their garrisons, if not used, then destroy / break them and leave behind ( dead weight) Edited 29 December , 2021 by Steve1871 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 29 December , 2021 Author Share Posted 29 December , 2021 Do any of you collectors have any British made 71 Mauser? Would love to see the photos, and very curious as to what the maker stamp for Greenwood and Batley looks like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 10 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 10 January , 2022 (edited) Rifle #27. 1/10/22 I.G.71 Mauser Maker. Danzig. Date 1880. Sn. 6452 P. Matching, but for 3 screws No unit, I see this as an interesting rifle in two areas. First is that it has the Steel trigger guard. As I said in beginning of the 71’s here, in early Great War, one of many things Germany did to round up any available Brass was simply taking the trigger guards off these rifles, after all, they were simply being used in guard duty among other uses in Germany during 1914, maybe 1915. If they were going to get rid of these rifles, they would not have gone to the effort and expense of making new, Steel guards for them The second interesting thing. I have never seen this mark, but the kind of large Crown over M be for Marine??!. It is marked on the shoulder of butt plate and on the right side of Safty ( odd place for a marking) Also, the crown over D is odd. The number of rifles (‘71”) I have plus S great many more have looked at in photo’s ( for sale). I have not seen before. I hope this could be a Navy/ Marine rifle from that marking!!!!! Just do not know Edited 17 January , 2022 by Steve1871 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 10 January , 2022 Share Posted 10 January , 2022 (edited) I am not expert on Marine rifles, but would doubt with this crown over M is it a marine inspection, as this is too on lower ring over serial number present, when visible various letters of proofs, i would tend to refurbished rifle as there are certainly not only one facility proofs, some are fraktur font, and some normal upper case latin font, which could be from later refurbishment. is the buttstock matching as the upper ring, buttplate, screw are not matching to receiver and bolt. Any unit stamps? Edited 10 January , 2022 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 10 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 10 January , 2022 Screws on bolt match, looking over pics again, only mismatched is the one screw for the buttstock tang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 10 January , 2022 Share Posted 10 January , 2022 (edited) Look at the buttstock serial, i dont see any serial on upper ring and there is 3607 on screw, the ring is not good fited into butt so certainly the upper ring is not from this butt, look at the great gap between wood and ring. The trigger sling swiwel screw has 63xx so also missmatch, trigger guard screw 9179, there is set of different numbers on bolt locking part, same as we dont see serial number of buttplate which is screw with 8838, i assume unit is on middle ring, which would be interesting to see. The overall rifle was chemically entrostet so possible the piece was already a multiple repair with various parts in end of is service life. Edited 10 January , 2022 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 11 January , 2022 Share Posted 11 January , 2022 IIRC, the Imperial Navy weapons used the Imperial Crown, not the State crown. The Imperial crown is like the one on the top of this badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackyFisher Posted 14 January , 2022 Share Posted 14 January , 2022 On 19/12/2021 at 22:19, Steve1871 said: Rifle -#25. 12/19/21. Kropatschek Carbine. Carbine , stock a little dark but very good condition, has roundel but Kind of faint, I did not get a clear photo of it, bolt is mismatched and has original cleaning rod. The magazine pouch, was told is right, there are many in that style, I hope it is correct Glad to hear you have recoverd to good health ! Could you do me a favor and measure the outer diameter of the barrels of carbine/short/long versions at the bayonet attachment please? I recently got its bayonet and heard some claims about the carbine having a 16.5mm diameter fit while the long rifle 16mm. Personally I question that as I imagine during the conversion from black powder to smokeless, there could be a barrel re-design, instead of carbine vs regular. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 14 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2022 Hey JackyFisher I am a trucker, living on the road. No have access to my collection, but as far as I know, there would be no difference in the barrel diameter at the muzzle, bayonet lug should fit the bayonet just fine. There was only one bayonet for the rifle,carbines, not a separate carbine bayonet As for the smokeless ammo, the rifles were not converted, simply, they used the same case, not sure if they changed the bullet weight, but used smokeless powder in them, the rifle was thought to be strong enough for the extra power. There are several web sites that would go into detail if you search. I have read that it was hated in Africa because the rifles took so much abuse from the climate and handling, and being just 8mm, with black powder, they would foul quickly. Firing smokeless ammo in worn out rifles would make it’s own problems. If I ever get any ammo made, For 130 year old rifles,I would reduce the load by 10 percent and would love to shoot them. Smokeless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 14 January , 2022 Share Posted 14 January , 2022 (edited) Yes there exists 2 MRD by Kropatschek, one for 17,4mm one smaller 16mm for normal long rifle, there is possibility that the Short rifles for police were not equiped with bayonets but were later reworked in that way and had larger out diameter on end of barell. This was already discussed on Gunboard. Edited 14 January , 2022 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 17 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2022 Andy, I never heard of that. I have problems on GB. Have you actually seen one with milled muzzle ring? You know book in any language showing both? WS it simply a 86’ bayonet, ring bored out to 17.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 17 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2022 (edited) . Edited 17 January , 2022 by Steve1871 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 17 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2022 Rifle #28 1/17/22 I.G. 71 Mauser Date 1875 Made & Issue same year Sn 2792 D maker Danzig Scarce Script type name Overall very good shape. This is another 71’ with replacement steel trigger guard.I have 4 Danzig’s , plus 71/84 Danzig & seen many others. All of them have DANZIG stamped in Print, this is only SCRIPT one I have seen. Again, the steel trigger guard 71’s are scarce to almost rare, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 17 January , 2022 Share Posted 17 January , 2022 Looks like a nice matching rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickster Posted 17 January , 2022 Share Posted 17 January , 2022 Splendid rifle Steve. You have a prize possession there. Its just perfect with the beautiful mellowed wood work. Mickster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrylee Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 The "Portuguese Mauser" as used by the South African Forces in the 1914 Rebellion and the invasion of German South West Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 (edited) The rifle is nice UDF marked. Is the bayonet serial numbered on pommel? looks like later portuguese refurbishment M04/39 probably. Edited 18 January , 2022 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 18 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 18 January , 2022 TerryLee Thanks, great photo’s, I not sure what UDF means, I think you might?? The arrow inside the “U” must surly be related. What do you know about this? I love to learn. ............ Defence Force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrylee Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 The bayonet is numbered but not to this rifle. UDF stands for Union Defense Force. This marking later fell into disuse with only the U Broad Arrow being used. South Africa acquired 20,000 of these rifles specifically for the invasion of GSWA, but the main invasion was delayed by the 1914 Rebellion. By the time the main invasion took place the Portuguese Mauser's weaknesses had been recognized and photographs indicate that it had been largely replaced by SMLEs and Long Lees. However, Portuguese Mauser cartridge cases are occasionally found where battles were fought. The problems experienced by the South Africans with the Portuguese Mauser mainly involved the ammunition which was found to be unreliable. Another difficulty was the bolt which once stripped was very difficult to reassemble. This particular rifle was purchased as military surplus by my wife's uncle shortly after the Second World War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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