ANZAC Cove Destroyed !

[michaeldr]

A Daniel in the lions’ den!

Well done Bill

Top marks to the Chair, but sorry to see that other politicians lived down to expectation.

Regards

Michael D.R.

[Auimfo]

Have read parts of it in full now. Does indeed appear this 'independent' inquiry is everything but. Typical politicians with their own party's barrow to push.

To hell with the honest Aussie and what he thinks - just try to belittle and impune his character so no one takes notice and don't give a damn about the issue at hand.

Would love to say more but better refrain. Bill, a stirling job under very trying and sometimes plain rude behaviour.

Tim L.

[Eceabat]

Tim,

the final report of the committee is scheduled to be handed down by June 30. One advantage, as far as those who were less than impressed by the roadworks on the Peninsula, is that the government is in the minority on the committee, so it won't be a whitewash job (he says in hope, also hoping this doesn't bend the rules on discussing politics, if so moderators please edit ).

There is currently a high powered Australian delegation here in Turkey to discuss future developments and joint studies of the battlefields with the Turkish officials. They were on the Peninsula Monday. I wasn't contacted for my views (funny that). Again hopefully, something positive will come out of this.

Cheers

Bill

PS. How can I be an 'honest Aussie'? I am a journalist remember, therefore a member of one of the least trusted professions, only just ahead of politicians (that is the result of a public opinion poll in Australia some years back, not a political comment)

[Auimfo]

Bill,

I was generalising of course. Perhaps I could suggest you rate as the most honest journalist I know.

As for those of the enquiry trying to besmirch your character - now that's really the pot calling the kettle black!!!

Tim L.

P.S. Bill - Just had a read of your submission to the committee. Didn't know you were the first to go 'pubic' with the news. I know you expected a 'hairy' time from the committee so wouldn't it have been better to go 'public'. Or did you think to yourself 'to L with it'.

[Eceabat]

Tim,

Yes, I was the first to raise the issue of human remains being disturbed, in both interviews I gave and articles that I wrote. From my personal point of view, the issue of these remains being uncovered was just one of a number of concerns, including destruction of relics, damage to sites of historic significance and to the topography, that were of importance.

It was the media, that made the question of human remains the main focal point of the debate, to be expected given the emotive nature of the issue. Sadly, many ignored the other matters at stake.

By going public I knew hairy times were to be my lot, and that of many others here who campaigned against what was happening. However, if at least some good comes out of it, something along the line of a rational heritage and environmental development plan that envisages the least impact on the battlefield I think we will all be well satisfied.

I suppose being a journo and having contacts in the media, as well as living on the Peninsula itself and having daily access to what was happening, meant that my name got somewhat associated with all this, but so many people here in Turkey and overseas have done so much to try and preserve the joint heritage that is Gallipoli.

Anyway, I’ve just got a big mouth and a poor sense of self preservation.

Cheers

Bill

[Geoff S]

Bill,

Thank you very much for providing this additional information. I am sure I will find it all very interesting.

I have only just started to read the submissions. .But, from what I have read it appears the government did not adequately consider the conservation management of the site.

The overall plan appears to have been heavily focused on the managing the tourists, at the expense of the site. I would have thought that the significance of the site should have been such that protecting the site from the impacts of all the tourists, might be equal, if not more important.

Also, I noticed in the request from the Minister on the 2nd of August 2004 that she does not specifically request a widening of the Anzac Cove Road. The issue of road safety appears focused only on Ridge Road. Perhaps I have not got to it yet, but is there a specific request from the Australian government in relation to widening the road along the beach?

Cheers

Geoff S

[Eceabat]

Geoff,

no, the letter from the former Minister did not request any upgrade on the road, though Turkish officials insist that such a request was made. Ms Vale's letter did however mention the need to ease congestion at the Dawn Service site and reduce the distance people attending the service had to walk.

Officials testifying before the Senate inquiry all stated that no request had been made to upgrade the coastal road. Interestingly, this contradicted statements in the parliament by both Prime Minister Howard and Foreign Minister Downer.

While I support more people of all nations coming to the Peninsula to gain a better understanding of their heritage, all of this has to be managed and any improvements of infrastructure and facilities done in a manner that will have minimum impact on the region. After all, it is the battlefields that people are supposed to be coming to visit. Many of the roads in the area are in need of repair, but work such as that done above and to the north and south of ANZAC Cove would ruin many valuable sites if carried out elsewhere. In some areas, while the road itself has only been widened to about seven metres, excatvations at the side of the road, combined with the dumping of spoil and broken asphalt from the old road, have created a swathe that is up to 20 metres wide.

Cheers

Bill

[Auimfo]

Bill,

Sorry, I was being a bit obscure in the PS to my last post. It was a little tongue in cheek - check the spelling of 'public' on the first page of your submission. I just found it amusing that you went 'PUBIC'.

Have finished reading it all now. Luckily the 'Chair' seemed to have a grip on the proceedings to a degree. Though I still maintain an independent inquiry can only really be held by those independent of any bias - and that certainly rules out all politicians.

Tim L.

[Bryn]

Bill,

Congratulations on handling so well some difficult questions from a couple of vindictive and stupid people (well, one in particular). Luckily the Chair seemed to have sussed out that you were on the level.

If either of those two want pictures of human remains at Anzac as 'proof', I'll happily email them some.

Anyway, well done mate.

[Blackblue]

On ya Bill.

TD

[Eceabat]

Tim,

you must think me a dolt. When I read your message I had just completed a lengthy and very tedious story on the Turkish telecommunicaitons sector, brain numbing stuff. I completely missed dreadful typo and your allusions to it. What a balls up.

Bryn,

remains, what remains? The official Turkish version is that no remains have been disturbed and frankly that is also the position of the CWGC and indeed most Australian government agencies.

So, when are we and the Efes going to be graced by having the light of your counternance cast upon us again?

Cheers

Bill

[Andrew P]

Thanks for the link to the hearing Bill. You kept your composure well under those personal attacks. I think I would have lost patience with those two Senators who were acting like petulant schoolkids.

I'll have to finish reading the rest of it.(Only up to pg113)

Regards

Andrew

[Geoff S]

I rang the department in charge of co-ordinating the report today in Canberra and they confirmed that the final report is expected to be finalised on the 17th of August.

Cheers

G

[Eceabat]

Yes, it is a bit of a shame that the date for the finalised report of the committee has been put back to August 17 from the original June 30.

Without delving into politics it is going to be interesting as June 30 was the last day that the combined Labor, Greens and Democrats held the majority in the Senate. I wonder what the change to the balance of power will do to the committee's findings.

Cheers

Bill

[Andrew P]

Statement from Senator Mark Bishop's Office

"12 July 2005 ref:m&pr/# /05

Government Official Admits Culpability on Gallipoli Roads

"…we got caught on roads [at Gallipoli]", said the Secretary of the Department of Veterans' Affairs Mr Mark Sullivan to Neil Mitchell (3AW) last Thursday 7 July.

This is tantamount to a public confession, Acting Shadow Minister for Veterans' Affairs, Senator Mark Bishop said today.

Taking the flak for Minister Kelly who has avoided accountability, Mr Sullivan has confessed what the Government denied before the Senate Public Finance and Administration References Committee which held a public hearing on this matter on 17 June.

Minister Kelly has in fact been lost in action, first being displaced by the Prime Minister who is now attempting to repair the damage, but also by further avoiding her Westminster responsibility in pushing Mr Sullivan to make the apologies on successive disasters in the portfolio the making of the Office of Australian War Graves.

Labor's position is supported by this confession. The Howard Government, with detailed fore knowledge of the road works, and multiple trips and involvement by Australian officials from both Ankara and Canberra, failed to intervene to prevent the destruction. They indeed "got it wrong".

Mr Sullivan's interview continued:

"The issues which came out of Gallipoli were some great concerns at military heritage, and some concerns about human remains. We're satisfied that in terms of military heritage, the place is disturbed but not affected significantly - particularly that some of the earlier places such as Birdwood's headquarters had been disturbed. McLagan's Ridge has been disturbed – there was a Turkish trench on McLagan's Ridge which we still have the greatest concern about - we talked to the Turks very recently…".

As for the uncovering of bones though, reliance is still placed on the scanty and inadequate findings of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission whose inspection after the event was only cursory – and completely contradicted by other witnesses who gave evidence to the Committee.

This is direct contrast to the views of Minister Kelly who, on visiting Gallipoli on 25 April 2005 was reported as saying that no damage had been done to the heritage of the site. Minister Kelly also disputed Kim Beazley's claim that the first battle ridge (McLagan's) had been badly disturbed.

Mr Sullivan now after detailed inspection disagrees. As is patently clear to all those who have visited Gallipoli, or who have seen the photographs of the road cutting, McLagan's Ridge which was first traversed in the early hours of Anzac morning has been completely disfigured, and everything on its lower reaches by the sea has been lost."

[Eceabat]

Andrew,

thanks for that. It would have been interesting to read the entire transcript of Mark Sullivan's interview. I wonder if there will be a statement in reply from Minister Kelly's office or from Mr Sullivan.

Cheers

Bill

[Auimfo]

Bearing in mind there is probably some measure of political bias in an opposition senators press release about the govt, it's still good to see that someone is perhaps accepting part of the blame.

Although Mr Sullivan probably contributed to the complete shambles I still await Minister (Missing In Action) Kelly's admission of ineptitude and the PM's admission of a 'damage control' coverup that enabled the destruction to continue.

Tim L.

[Eceabat]

Although Mr Sullivan probably contributed to the complete shambles I still await Minister (Missing In Action) Kelly's admission of ineptitude and the PM's admission of a 'damage control' coverup that enabled the destruction to continue.

Tim,

don't hold your breath

Cheers

Bill

[Auimfo]

Yes, it's a bit naieve of me to think it would even be remotely possible.

Tim L.

[Eceabat]

Hi Pals,

I hate to be the harbinger of doom but it seems as if things may be about to get worse here on the Peninsula.

Through sources I have on the inside, I have been informed in the past few days that Turkey’s Culture and Tourism Ministry is also planning to get into the battlefield buggering business. At present, a private company has been commissioned to put forward a series of proposals for developing a number of sites on the Gallipoli battlefields.

According to one source, who has been directly consulted by the company over these plans, it has been proposed that the Turkish trenches above V beach be reconstructed, and that tourist viewing areas, complete with car parks, be constructed at a number of points. These include two viewing areas on the Q Hills, including where Allison’s Ghurka gained the summit, one at the Nek and another above the Sphinx on Russell’s Top.

As this proposed work is to be conducted on behalf of the Culture and Tourism Ministry, not the National Parks Authority, it means that any construction would not be covered by the Park’s regulations (which have been ignored in the case of ANZAC Cove and Turkish Quinns anyway. Nor is there any obligation to abide by the recommendations of the Park’s committee of experts, set up to advise on future developments.

Needless to say, opposition among many local historians and enthusiasts is strong.

I should stress that these planned developments are still in the proposal stage, though the construction company has been asked to prepare full plans for the developments. I am trying to get more information but, for reasons that escape me, I seem to be persona non grata with certain Turkish officials.

I’ll try and keep everyone posted on this one.

Eceabat

[Ozzie]

Just posting to say thanks for the update.

Please let someone somewhere with a mind towards preservation have a say in all this.

Doesn't any but a few care?

Kim

[Auimfo]

I am getting extremely annoyed and frustrated with ignorant fools who, even after the last balls-up, continue to blindly think that Gallipoli is nothing more than a tourist attraction to cash in on.

Bill, could you forward as much info as you can, either as a post or to me via email and I'll try and stir up a little bit of media attention. They were a little slow on the uptake last time so hopefully this time around they'll sit up and take notice a little faster.

I'd also send emails to 'Missing In Action' Kelly and Mark Bishop. With any luck the former might want to avoid another stuff up and the latter will be again keen to try score a point.

Tim L.

P.S. Bill - Is it ok if I quote you in these emails as the source of the information?

[Andrew P]

Thanks for the update Bill.

Kim, maybe a few more in Britain might begin to care if this affects Helles.

[Ozzie]

I'd agree with that Andrew.

Bill,

Am doing same as Andrew so please keep us updated.

Kim

[michaeldr]

Bill,

Many thanks keeping us informed

I have again forwarded this thread on to interested parties in the UK

And I have drawn their att to your post of yesterday in case any have not seen it yet

Best regards

Michael D.R.