pjwmacro Posted 8 June , 2022 Author Share Posted 8 June , 2022 1 hour ago, mcassell said: Attached are a few nice pictures from the Langford album of 19th MMG in the Bolan Pass in 1918 Great pictures thanks for sharing. Now all we need is relatives to identify them. Any indications as to some of them being g Langford himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcassell Posted 10 June , 2022 Share Posted 10 June , 2022 On 07/06/2022 at 16:35, david murdoch said: They were just low resolution snap of the album page. Cap badges in view are certainly MMGS, also MGC(M) shoulder titles and Sgt Burke's artificer badge above his stripes. In the picture with the officer with glasses the corporal next to him has an MM ribbon - I may be able to identify him from that. I cross-checked names of men so far known to have been with 19 MMG with my list of men awarded MM while with MMGS/MGC (Motors) (101 names). No match. As far as I have been able to ascertain, only 2 men, who had the MM before 19 MMG went to India, 32556 Gunner C H Briance and 1462 Gunner M McDougall, went to India (in their case with 3 MMG Battery) and got the IGSM with Afghanistan NWF clasp. Both men never rose above rank of Gunner. So the identity of the Corporal with the MM ribbon - his cap badge clearly shows he was in MGC (M) - is a mystery to me. PS. The photo correction I did was convert the orthochromatic originals to modern panchromatic. Sorry for mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjwmacro Posted 10 June , 2022 Author Share Posted 10 June , 2022 7 hours ago, mcassell said: 32556 Gunner C H Briance I was going to say Briance was awarded MM. Suppose there is a chance the character concerned could have been awarded local rank, especially in India, as experienced gunners? .And it then failed to catch up on records? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 10 June , 2022 Share Posted 10 June , 2022 1 hour ago, pjwmacro said: I was going to say Briance was awarded MM. Suppose there is a chance the character concerned could have been awarded local rank, especially in India, as experienced gunners? .And it then failed to catch up on records? He may have been awarded earlier in the war in Europe as a gunner or he may be an acting corporal in the photo. I have list of MGC(M) MM winners but not all have unit marked on their cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcassell Posted 11 June , 2022 Share Posted 11 June , 2022 I dont think either Briance or McDougall are candidates. Briance's service record has survived and there is no indication he served outside of 3 MMG. Taking the list of 101 MGC(M) winners, elimination of those gazetted after June 1918, those that transferred to the Tank Corps, those commissioned, killed in action or discharged, the bloc of Siwa Oasis MM winners, all of who were still with 1 LAC Brigade in 1918, those who were Sergeants prior to 1918 leaves just 6 possible candidates: 1999 Gunner A Benson (later Corporal), 32004 Gunner T Bernard (no mic traced?), 323 Corporal G Chapman, 1554 Bombardier (later Corporal) P Dalrymple, 32531 Gunner G Little, 32539 Gunner W G Osborne (no mic?), That's as far as I can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 12 June , 2022 Share Posted 12 June , 2022 10 hours ago, mcassell said: I dont think either Briance or McDougall are candidates. Briance's service record has survived and there is no indication he served outside of 3 MMG. Taking the list of 101 MGC(M) winners, elimination of those gazetted after June 1918, those that transferred to the Tank Corps, those commissioned, killed in action or discharged, the bloc of Siwa Oasis MM winners, all of who were still with 1 LAC Brigade in 1918, those who were Sergeants prior to 1918 leaves just 6 possible candidates: 1999 Gunner A Benson (later Corporal), 32004 Gunner T Bernard (no mic traced?), 323 Corporal G Chapman, 1554 Bombardier (later Corporal) P Dalrymple, 32531 Gunner G Little, 32539 Gunner W G Osborne (no mic?), That's as far as I can get. 1999 Adam Bruce was 6th MMG and POW on 14/4/1918 32004 T Bernard won MM 1916 with Heavy Section (possibly later 201701 Tank Corps) 323 George Chapman won MM 1916 with 6th MMG 1554 Peter Dalrymple won MM 1916 with 15th MMG 32531 George Little won MM 1916 with 6th MMG 32539 W G Osborne won MM 1916 with 7th MMG I did not find medal card either and he is missing from the MGC(M) medal roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcassell Posted 12 June , 2022 Share Posted 12 June , 2022 I concur with unit designations and award dates you provided. I have 1999 from several sources as Benson not Bruce - enlisted under false name? Wasn't aware he was POW 1918 so he is out. Gunner Bernard somehow crept onto my 'paper' list. Of course, he was crew member of tank C14 on 15 September 1916, wounded and got MM. Should have spotted that! Appears down to 4 possible candidates. Could age help us here? The Corporal with the MM ribbon in 19th MMG photo appears to be a 'mature' man in his late 30s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 12 June , 2022 Share Posted 12 June , 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, mcassell said: I concur with unit designations and award dates you provided. I have 1999 from several sources as Benson not Bruce - enlisted under false name? Wasn't aware he was POW 1918 so he is out. Gunner Bernard somehow crept onto my 'paper' list. Of course, he was crew member of tank C14 on 15 September 1916, wounded and got MM. Should have spotted that! Appears down to 4 possible candidates. Could age help us here? The Corporal with the MM ribbon in 19th MMG photo appears to be a 'mature' man in his late 30s. Benson is Benson for sure - that was a typo error when copying from my list. I'd researched him previously as from the war diary he and another man went missing from 6th MMG, when they rode into territory unknowingly taken by the Germans and got captured. I have a similar issue with a personal photo of an MGC(M) Sergeant with MM and 4 overseas chevrons who was obviously a mate of my Grandfather in Mesopotamia. Almost certainly original MMGS but never (yet) been able to identify him among L.A..M.B recipients of MM. Our 19th MMG man also appears in the back of the group photo with the BSM, but only head showing. Edited 12 June , 2022 by david murdoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcassell Posted 12 June , 2022 Share Posted 12 June , 2022 Thanks for correction David-was worried I had missed something in addition to Gunner Benson's capture! Re yr comment about pinning down NCO with MM and 4 service stripes. Think you are limited to 2272 Sergeant J Bonfield or 1066 Sergeant D Ford. Have on my list as '?LAMB', if for no other reason the MMs were gazetted for Mesoptamia and no MMG batteries served there. I seem to recall you said yr grandfather served in 8 LAMB. I have annotated photo album of Lieutenant JL Wood of 8 LAMB (as well as 'packet' of photos taken by Lieutenant K G Jefferys of same). Will scan but post on LAMB/LCP thread rather than continue to corrupt this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcassell Posted 14 June , 2022 Share Posted 14 June , 2022 Two pictures of Gunner Langford, only ones in album. Have posted 8 LAMB picture on LAMB thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjwmacro Posted 14 June , 2022 Author Share Posted 14 June , 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, mcassell said: Two pictures of Gunner Langford, only ones in album Great photos - thanks for sharing. Any idea who the gunner in the sidecar is? Edited 14 June , 2022 by pjwmacro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcassell Posted 14 June , 2022 Share Posted 14 June , 2022 Annotation says 'Self and Blakeley'. These 2 pics, at front of album, were taken at Bisley, presumably when Langford joined up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 16 June , 2022 Share Posted 16 June , 2022 On 14/06/2022 at 19:40, mcassell said: Annotation says 'Self and Blakeley'. These 2 pics, at front of album, were taken at Bisley, presumably when Langford joined up. Almost certainly Pte. 79567 Robert Blakeley. By his close service number to Langford (79427), would have a close enlistment date and be in training at the same time. He re enlisted in ASC 12/8/1919 as EMT/54407 and appears on their medal roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcassell Posted 16 June , 2022 Share Posted 16 June , 2022 Agree. He's the one with the MG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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