22nd Battery Machine Gun Corps (Motors)

[pjwmacro]

North West Frontier - possibly in May16.

[pjwmacro]

Murree and Kuldana

[pjwmacro]

Murree 1918. Grandfather is the centre figure . LittleTitch - battery mascot, below.

[pjwmacro]

Uncaptioned.

[david murdoch]

16 hours ago, pjwmacro said:

Uncaptioned.

Nice photo Paul and some interesting details. Any chance of getting a better copy of it? In this picture the chap sitting front left is a Colour Sgt and is also wearing 4 overseas service chevrons, so assuming this is 1919 served overseas since before the unit existed. Corporal next to him with crossed guns  over his stripes (maybe Albert Ward as his official rank was Corporal). One of the Lieutenants, and beside him possibly the original BSM. Cpl standing on left has a patch on his right forearm, but does not look like overseas chevrons, also you can see the unit insignia on his puggaree - as seen in some of the other photos. 

[pjwmacro]

7 hours ago, david murdoch said:

Nice photo Paul and some interesting details. Any chance of getting a better copy of it? In this picture the chap sitting front left is a Colour Sgt and is also wearing 4 overseas service chevrons, so assuming this is 1919 served overseas since before the unit existed. Corporal next to him with crossed guns  over his stripes (maybe Albert Ward as his official rank was Corporal). One of the Lieutenants, and beside him possibly the original BSM. Cpl standing on left has a patch on his right forearm, but does not look like overseas chevrons, also you can see the unit insignia on his puggaree - as seen in some of the other photos. 

David

I have messaged and emailed you the best copy I have. (More detail in message/email). I dont think my grandfather is in this photo (need to check that with my father) - but I think it was taken in late 1919'at a demob camp - possibly Gondal. (Or Deolali?)  Hope that helps.

Best Paul

[JPJamie]

Paul!

We've matched album images  again!  So you have May 16th and I have the year! 

Here is the image of the "Peace Offering" and my grandfather dated the image!  1916.

 

Sorry you're having technical problems, I sure have a history of them myself! 

I think we may share duplicates yet discovered, but I promise to match all of them!  LOL!   I also think I may have another image of Maj Molony.   This one shows him standing and the image is from behind him.  He appears to be talking to somebody and he has his staff in his right hand.  Will upload when I get time.  If there are duplicates, it makes me wonder if there was an assigned photographer, as he made copies and distributed them...

 

Edited 7 June , 2017 by JPJamie

[JPJamie]

Here is Edward Collins Gunner 1622, but I don't understand my grandfather's "T" in what appears to be a representation of his first name....

 

Edited 7 June , 2017 by JPJamie

[JPJamie]

Here is  Robert Louclen Gunner 1443...

 

Edited 7 June , 2017 by JPJamie

[pjwmacro]

16 hours ago, JPJamie said:

Paul!

We've matched album images  again! 

I think we may share duplicates yet discovered, but I promise to match all of them!  LOL!   I also think I may have another image of Maj Molony.   This one shows him standing and the image is from behind him.  He appears to be talking to somebody and he has his staff in his right hand.  Will upload when I get time.  If there are duplicates, it makes me wonder if there was an assigned photographer, as he made copies and distributed them...

 

 

 

James that is spooky. Would this be the image of Molony to which you refer?  It is very strange - I knew my grandfather couldn't have taken all the pictures - because he appears in a number of them! But I have assumed he had some form of camera with him - although I think that was frowned upon. So there must have been some sort of arrangement made to distribute photos after the war. Which is quite an achievement when you consider the large number of Scots there appear to be in the battery - balanced by the fact my grandfather and a number of the others (ASC in particular) where London lads. But I know Molony took an interest in the men post war - he certainly attempted to contact my grandfather - so this might have something to do with it. And I am sure there must be other albums out there -I think one came up for auction about 5 years ago - but I wasn't aware until after the event!

Best, Paul

[pjwmacro]

On 2017-6-6 at 16:46, david murdoch said:

Nice photo Paul and some interesting details. Any chance of getting a better copy of it? In this picture the chap sitting front left is a Colour Sgt and is also wearing 4 overseas service chevrons, so assuming this is 1919 served overseas since before the unit existed. Corporal next to him with crossed guns  over his stripes (maybe Albert Ward as his official rank was Corporal). One of the Lieutenants, and beside him possibly the original BSM. Cpl standing on left has a patch on his right forearm, but does not look like overseas chevrons, also you can see the unit insignia on his puggaree - as seen in some of the other photos. 

Hi David

Photo I was referring to in PM.

[david murdoch]

2 hours ago, pjwmacro said:

Hi David

Photo I was referring to in PM.

Another nice photo. I can see I think 5 gun carriers in there, though 2 in the middle look like the guns and top half of the shield are removed. The side car with the comfy seat most likely the CO's transport (possibly the same one in the photo being ridden by Sgt Fielder!). They probably had more trucks due to the longer distances they would be covering when re locating.

[pjwmacro]

Just started a thread in lookups - to see if any members can look up eastbourne newspaper archives for any mention of 22 Bty.

 

 

[david murdoch]

Paul. I have a subscription to British Newspaper Archives. There are many many hits for MMGS across the country - especially related to the recruitment. Regarding Eastbourne I had a quick look, and found so far a couple of articles but these pertain to a couple of local lads that paid thier own way up to Coventry to enlist. Both ended up in No.1 Battery one being killed and the other discharged SWB.  Not found anything (yet) regarding a camp near Eastbourne - may need to find a local history site.

[pjwmacro]

6 hours ago, david murdoch said:

Paul. I have a subscription to British Newspaper Archives. There are many many hits for MMGS across the country - especially related to the recruitment. Regarding Eastbourne I had a quick look, and found so far a couple of articles but these pertain to a couple of local lads that paid thier own way up to Coventry to enlist. Both ended up in No.1 Battery one being killed and the other discharged SWB.  Not found anything (yet) regarding a camp near Eastbourne - may need to find a local history site.

David

 

There is an Eastbourne local history society: http://www.eastbournehistory.org.uk/

 

I`ll try them., Paul

[david murdoch]

16 hours ago, david murdoch said:

Paul. I have a subscription to British Newspaper Archives. There are many many hits for MMGS across the country - especially related to the recruitment. Regarding Eastbourne I had a quick look, and found so far a couple of articles but these pertain to a couple of local lads that paid thier own way up to Coventry to enlist. Both ended up in No.1 Battery one being killed and the other discharged SWB.  Not found anything (yet) regarding a camp near Eastbourne - may need to find a local history site.

Paul.

Just got this from BNA.  Eastbourne Gazette 29/9/1915. Does not specify battery number, but puts an MMG Battery on parade in Eastbourne on Saturday October 2nd 1915! So maybe not based around there but just down there for the parade. This parade was apparently part of a nationwide  recruiting day. I'll mail you the whole page pfd as the article explains this. Next to look for the following week's paper for the write up! This event was sure to have been photographed.

[JPJamie]

21 hours ago, pjwmacro said:

 

James that is spooky. Would this be the image of Molony to which you refer?  It is very strange - I knew my grandfather couldn't have taken all the pictures - because he appears in a number of them! But I have assumed he had some form of camera with him - although I think that was frowned upon. So there must have been some sort of arrangement made to distribute photos after the war. Which is quite an achievement when you consider the large number of Scots there appear to be in the battery - balanced by the fact my grandfather and a number of the others (ASC in particular) where London lads. But I know Molony took an interest in the men post war - he certainly attempted to contact my grandfather - so this might have something to do with it. And I am sure there must be other albums out there -I think one came up for auction about 5 years ago - but I wasn't aware until after the event!

Best, Paul

 

As we discussed on Facebook (video) Messenger (that was fun!) I also have the above image showing what we feel is Maj. Molony.  Thought it might be good to share with others that there (we now have three) may have been an effort to (send in the) post and share some of the photographs.  So far the shared photographs are much larger than others.  

 

[pjwmacro]

1 hour ago, david murdoch said:

Paul.

Just got this from BNA.  Eastbourne Gazette 29/9/1915. Does not specify battery number, but puts an MMG Battery on parade in Eastbourne on Saturday October 2nd 1915! So maybe not based around there but just down there for the parade. This parade was apparently part of a nationwide  recruiting day. I'll mail you the whole page pfd as the article explains this. Next to look for the following week's paper for the write up! This event was sure to have been photographed.

 

I was given this link to Eastbourne press archives in the thread I posted on Eastbourne Sussex Press - see post ID 113 in this thread: http://www.eastsussexww1.org.uk/newspaper-portal/

I have looked up Eastbourne Gazette of Wed 6 Oct which carries an article on the parade (I didn't see photographs - but maybe the papers actual archives would have some?) - but doesn't even list the MMG Battery as taking part! Very frustrating - as especially as the Armoured Car gets a specific mention.

 

Best Paul

[JPJamie]

Here is John Girdwood (also see other image) on a motorcycle. 

What I didn't notice on the smaller image (2.5 x 1.5 inch) is the man at right who appears to be holding a camera. 

So this may have been a photo session.  I scan all images at 300 dpi, then resize them to see greater detail.

 

The way the man is holding the camera, he would be looking down into the camera which might be a KODAK BROWNIE No. 3, Model B - 1911

 

Edited 8 June , 2017 by JPJamie

[david murdoch]

7 hours ago, pjwmacro said:

 

I was given this link to Eastbourne press archives in the thread I posted on Eastbourne Sussex Press - see post ID 113 in this thread: http://www.eastsussexww1.org.uk/newspaper-portal/

I have looked up Eastbourne Gazette of Wed 6 Oct which carries an article on the parade (I didn't see photographs - but maybe the papers actual archives would have some?) - but doesn't even list the MMG Battery as taking part! Very frustrating - as especially as the Armoured Car gets a specific mention.

 

Best Paul

Yes - I've just been looking at that too - big and detailed write up but no mention of the MMG battery - perhaps they did a static display in the town.

Edited 8 June , 2017 by david murdoch

[pjwmacro]

3 hours ago, JPJamie said:

 

As we discussed on Facebook (video) Messenger (that was fun!) I also have the above image showing what we feel is Maj. Molony.  Thought it might be good to share with others that there (we now have three) may have been an effort to (send in the) post and share some of the photographs.  So far the shared photographs are much larger than others.  

 

James

This is the link to the album that came up for auction. https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/21188345_india-rawalpindi-22-battery-motor-machine-guns. Took place in 2013. Mareen E posted it at the start of this thread - I was aware of it but not until after the event.

Paul

[pjwmacro]

2 hours ago, JPJamie said:

Here is John Girdwood (also see other image) on a motorcycle. 

What I didn't notice on the smaller image (2.5 x 1.5 inch) is the man at right who appears to be holding a camera. 

So this may have been a photo session.  I scan all images at 300 dpi, then resize them to see greater detail.

 

The way the man is holding the camera, he would be looking down into the camera which might be a KODAK BROWNIE No. 3, Model B - 1911

 

 

James

I agree that it looks like the man on the right is holding a camera. I'll leave it to you to try and identify that - definitely not my field of expertise!

Interesting photo for a number of reasons:

1. Girdwood was ASC but to me it looks like his cap badge in the photo is MGC(M)? Or is the scan just not good enough to tell. Or did the ASC guys adopt MGC insignia?

2. Judging from the hut in the background i'd say this photo was taken in England not India. I know that huts did exist in India - but generally the photos I have seen puts accommodation in India as being in tents or colonial/tropical barracks.

3. If it is UK - Bisley ..... or Eastbourne.

[pjwmacro]

2 hours ago, david murdoch said:

Yes - I've just been looking at that too - big and detaied write up but no mention of the MMG battery - perhaps they did a static display in the town.

 

Umm. Although Eastbourne is an easy ride from Bisley -especially in light of Fielders letter - for a day or even a weekend. And the report says it was raining -which doesn't really fit with the Eastbourne beach photo. Maybe local history can shed some light - but will probably have to wait until after the weekend - need to pack for a sailing w/e.

[pjwmacro]

On 2017-6-1 at 17:56, david murdoch said:

Girdwood:-

From JJ's list

John Girdwood Private M2/097864 Army Service Corps

Received BWM only and the GSM with NWF clasp.

Address, Thorncliffe, Wishaw, Lanarkshire (close by Hamilton)

 

From the 1901 census I have a John Girdwood born in 1898 in Wishaw to Andrew (a spirits salesman) and Jessie Girdwood (both born 1867 at Carluke) - do you think this is our Girdwood? If so he had a big sister Jessie b 1892. I cannot find a service record for M2/097864 Pte Girdwood ASC.

[JPJamie]

7 minutes ago, pjwmacro said:

 

From the 1901 census I have a John Girdwood born in 1898 in Wishaw to Andrew (a spirits salesman) and Jessie Girdwood (both born 1867 at Carluke) - do you think this is our Girdwood? If so he had a big sister Jessie b 1892. I cannot find a service record for M2/097864 Pte Girdwood ASC.

 

Great stuff David and Paul!  What a team!

 

JJ