German Uniform Photos

[4thGordons]

Thanks both, so my eyes were not deceiving me.

Here is another early one: with the large Arabic collar number discussed above (interestingly both 38 and 39) and some bayonets for Julian.

This is postmarked Munster Lager Sept 27th 1914.

I struggled to come up with an idiomatic translation of the board but with a little help of a colleague came up with something like:

One meets at sea and/or on land yet we, fellow country men, met on the grounds of Camp Munster.

Chris

[The Prussian]

Hi Chris!

That all fits togeher! Both brigades came from Hannover (X.AK), Munsterlager was the training ground for that corps

[trajan]

... I struggled to come up with an idiomatic translation of the board but with a little help of a colleague came up with something like:

One meets at sea and/or on land yet we, fellow country men, met on the grounds of Camp Munster.

That's a really nice photograph - quite evocative of old timers back on duty and a sense of "Here we are again, chaps!", ready to ward off the foe with their S.71 bayonets fixed!

And the translation does justice! Albeit shades of ''We joined the navy to see the world, and what did we see?, we saw the sea".

Julian

[The Prussian]

I received an interesting Christmas gift from my better half. A "grab-bag" of about 300 what appear to be 1900-1920 photographs. These originated from a dealer in Germany so it is unlikely that there is anything really special in them (by which I mean I suspect they have been sorted through) but a quick glance does suggest that there are some interesting group shots.

grabbag.jpg

While I am reasonably comfortable with British photos - these are exclusively German - and an area about which I know very little. My knowledge of German military organization is relatively limited also so I was hoping to pick the brains of experts here. Quite a number of the photo-cards have writing on and a quick glance through suggests both the handwriting and the language is going to challenge my 30 year old O-Level German!

As I sort through these and attempt to organize them I thought I might use this thread to post questions rather than start a new one each time.

So if you would indulge me: just a couple off the top!

3web.jpg

undated divided back , photographer W Kofahl, Konigsbruck i Sa Sign appears to read "07 Reserve 09, Parole 138"

So -- a Saxon Reserve unit - pre war? (1909?) would be my guess

2.jpg

(undated, blank divided back . Newspaper appears to be Hetz? Chalked sign above fireplace reads "...andres shlickeit"

What is the collar insignia on the chap front right as we look?

Shoulder tabs appear to have a 2 on them

Chris

Hi Chris!

It's called "Landres, Gemütlichkeit "

The three bars probably stand for III.Bataillon

[trajan]

Well, still using the old scanner hooked up to the very old (10 years!) laptop, but I thought I'd get something on to revive things here! (And thanks for the offer and revised title Chris)

 

 

 So, first up, this one, and nothing at all on the reverse...And very few give-aways, except that those Ersatz bayonets have single piece crossguards and so belong to the EB 09-14 group, and they have fullers and different pommels, which suggests the one at the rear with its hooked pommel is probably an EB 09, (edit - see PS) the one at the front with a straight pommel looks to be an EB 11/12. Happy to be corrected though! Either way, the Ersatz bayonets show that the photograph cannot be before Autumn 1914... (Yes, really helpful. I know!)

 

 

The one chap has boots, the other sandals(!), and they have their pipes in front of their crossed bayonets. The man on the right seems to be a NCO - well, he has what looks like a button on his collar, but I would not swear to it. 

 

Possibly wearing the M.1908 Dienstmutze? Looks to be they are wearing the M.1910 Waffenrock? - with Swedish cuffs! The cockades beneath the national (Reich) one are indistinct, but the 'white' outer ring limits these (I think!) to Bavaria  (but they are too small); Saxony (but Swedish cuffs?), Schaumburg-Lippe, or Sonderhausen... But whatever, it looks to be a filled-in centre, so Landsturm? Again, I will be very happy to be corrected on any of these points!

 

One possible extra clue are the epaulettes of the man on the right... I wouldn't press it but there might just be an '11' or an 'M' there?

 

Julian

 

PS: Maybe not a hooked pommel in that one? 

Edited 28 September , 2016 by trajan

[trajan]

This one - posted 24 09 14 - is nice in some ways, but a bu**er in others because of the faded 'kurrent schrift' on the obverse which is clearer (if still a problem for me!) on the reverse text.... 

 

I understand it to be a Landsturmmann (see the cross on his oilskin cap), and I think from Bavaria (look at the size of the lower cockade) in Strassburg (see below), with full field equipment, including a S.71/84 on his rifle. That looks to be a '4' on his collar, and so - what? I'll post the reverse next...

 

 

This is the reverse...

 I freely admit I am lost on this one... To Ihr Frauen ??? R??? ... in Ober??? near R??? And so advice / transcription / translation would be welcome. Also, vielen danke!

Edited 28 September , 2016 by trajan

[trajan]

IF Bavarian Landsturm (the large lowere cockade) then perhaps I B.4 bayerisches Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Weilheim or II B.4 bayerisches Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Neustadt a.H., or III В.4 bayerisches Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Hof...

 

But Strassburg in 1914 was AK XV, I believe... And so ??? AK XV 4 Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Kolmar? As usual, happy to be corrected on this learning curve!

Edited 28 September , 2016 by trajan

[trajan]

Last one for now... A little bit more straightforward in many ways, but it is time for bed-time stories here and so I'll simply post for now and let others do some work! Postcard here, text on reverse in next one!

Edited 28 September , 2016 by trajan

[trajan]

Here is the text in several installments because of this stupid system when if you load more than allowed you have to start again!

[trajan]

And - a double repeat as I got the message "You are only allowed to upload 245.76kb" when I was uploading a second image less than that total!...

 

To paraphrase... "There is something wrong with our GWF uploading system"

[trajan]

And then they tell me that my replies have been merged! And again that message "You are only allowed to upload 245.76kb" 

 

Here are details... If the computer says "Yes"...

 

And yet again the posts have all been merged after being told I am exceeded the limit!!!! Grrrr...

 

But seriously, anyone want to try the above? I have worked out the unit, pretty easy!, and the sender is a "Willy" writing to his 'Liebe eltern", but the surname of the sender in the "Feld Post" part looks to be "Braune" and the adressee are "Kasebier"(?). 

Edited 28 September , 2016 by trajan

[trajan]

13 hours ago, trajan said:

 

 

 

13 hours ago, trajan said:

 

... the sender is a "Willy" writing to his 'Liebe eltern", but the surname of the sender in the "Feld Post" part looks to be "Braune" and the adressee are "Kasebier"(?). 

 

This is quite a mixture... The sender ( I have no idea as to his rank, the first word) is with the Feld.M.G.(?) of the 2nd Batt., Ersatz Brigade Konigsberg, Landsturm Infanterie Regiment 20, 10 Landwehr Division. But the guy at the back in the Bluse M.1915 has litzen and a quite different State cockade from the others, who all wear the Waffenrock M.1910, the one on the right having what looks to be a number '70' on his shoulder, and although the shoulder number  of the NCO 4th from left is indistinct, it ends with an upright digit, not a rounded one, and so is not '70'.

 

Any offers?

Edited 29 September , 2016 by trajan

[AOK4]

It's Feld-Maschinengewehr-Zug 266, raised on 30 May 1915 by the MG-Lehrkursus Döberitz, mobile since 1 June 1915 ans attached from 18 June 1915 onwards to Landsturm-Infanterie-Regiment 20 until it was dissolved in October 1916 into the regiment's newly formed 3. MGK.

 

These FeldMGZüge were formed to quickly increase the number of MGs in the frontline units. In this case some available men in this MG course were gathered and formed into a new unit. They were of course still wearing the uniform of the unit that had sent them to the MG course (I even think that most of the men kept this uniform and numbers etc. until the FeldMGZug was transformed in a permanent MG unit). Some of the men may have come from other army corps etc. Sometimes they were later exchanged to have homogeneous units, sometimes not. The Ersatztruppenteil for FeldmGZug 266 was the 1. Ersatz-Kompagnie XXI. Armeekorps.

 

Jan

[trajan]

Just now, AOK4 said:

It's Feld-Maschinengewehr-Zug 266, raised on 30 May 1915 by the MG-Lehrkursus Döberitz, mobile since 1 June 1915 ans attached from 18 June 1915 onwards to Landsturm-Infanterie-Regiment 20 until it was dissolved in October 1916 into the regiment's newly formed 3. MGK.

 

Jan, that's fantastic, many thanks - and welcome news as I sit down to lunch-at-desk and catch up on GWF! I had no idea that letter was a 'Z' for a 'Zug'! Any thoughts on the word before the sender's name? It's not an abbreviation for 'Infanteriste' is it? And just to be sure, the last line of the return address is '8 Armee in Osten'?

Julian

 

 

[AOK4]

15 hours ago, trajan said:

IF Bavarian Landsturm (the large lowere cockade) then perhaps I B.4 bayerisches Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Weilheim or II B.4 bayerisches Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Neustadt a.H., or III В.4 bayerisches Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Hof...

 

But Strassburg in 1914 was AK XV, I believe... And so ??? AK XV 4 Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Kolmar? As usual, happy to be corrected on this learning curve!

 

It should be a Landsturm unit raised by the 4th Infantry Brigade (that's the meaning of arabic numbers on the Landsturm collars in the early part of the war, later they received their full battalion number, corps number in Roman numbers and battalion number in arabic numbers). The 4th Bavarian Infantry Brigade (I. Bayerisches Armeekorps) was raised in the area Dillingen and Mindelheim.

Straßburg was border fortification, so it had plenty of troops garrisoned there to defend it (mainly from outside Alsace-Lorraine).

 

His name (Joseph Kaiser) is too common to do a search on ancestry. He wrote the card to his wife in Oberbeuren (Kaufbeuren).

 

Jan

6 minutes ago, trajan said:

 

Jan, that's fantastic, many thanks - and welcome news as I sit down to lunch-at-desk and catch up on GWF! I had no idea that letter was a 'Z' for a 'Zug'! Any thoughts on the word before the sender's name? It's not an abbreviation for 'Infanteriste' is it? And just to be sure, the last line of the return address is '8 Armee in Osten'?

Julian

 

 

 

Schütze is his rank (machine gunner).

The last line is indeed 8. Armee im Osten.

 

Jan

[trajan]

Again, many thanks Jan.

 

I have never really looked into Landwehr/sturm matters, but I should have realised that it was the battalion number not the regiment as I did read about that some time ago . Also, good to have confirmation he is Bavarian - they really did like the bigger State cockades!

 

Ah, Schuetze... (don't have umlauts on this English keyboard - )

 

Julian

[depaor01]

Here's one of my latest. Prisoners of War. 

 

Defacing your uniform with a POW number must have been a very difficult thing to do.

 

Anyway, Reading the back it looks like the man numbered 342 in the photo is writing the card.

A French postcard picturing German POWs, being sent back to Germany C/O the GPO in London!!!

 

Some words I can't decipher "engsfeld"? the address?

 

 

 

 

[AOK4]

33 minutes ago, depaor01 said:

Here's one of my latest. Prisoners of War. 

 

Defacing your uniform with a POW number must have been a very difficult thing to do.

 

Anyway, Reading the back it looks like the man numbered 342 in the photo is writing the card.

A French postcard picturing German POWs, being sent back to Germany C/O the GPO in London!!!

 

Some words I can't decipher "engsfeld"? the address?

 

 

He was called Max Engsfeld and he belonged to POW Company 71. They were active in France.

 

Jan

[trajan]

2 hours ago, depaor01 said:

Here's one of my latest. Prisoners of War. 

 

 

No. 636 has what I think are 'Old Prussian' litzen with a central stripe, and so had been in one of a limited number of regiments, depending on what the colour is. According to my notes, if white, as it seems to be, then the possibilities include 5 Garde-Regiment zu Fuss, and 6 or 7 Garde-Infanterie-Regiment; if yellow, then 5 Garde-Grenadier... 

 

Julian

[The Prussian]

On 29.9.2016 at 16:15, trajan said:

 

No. 636 has what I think are 'Old Prussian' litzen with a central stripe, and so had been in one of a limited number of regiments, depending on what the colour is. According to my notes, if white, as it seems to be, then the possibilities include 5 Garde-Regiment zu Fuss, and 6 or 7 Garde-Infanterie-Regiment; if yellow, then 5 Garde-Grenadier... 

 

Julian

Hello Julian!

You are right, but unfortunately I can´t recognize a red stripe inside of the Litze.

If there ain´t no red stripe (so full-colour white, we have Füs.Rgt.80 (hessian)

There were long and short Litzen

Edited 1 October , 2016 by The Prussian

[trajan]

2 hours ago, The Prussian said:

... unfortunately I can´t recognize a red stripe inside of the Litze.

 

We will have to disagree on this one! The red stripe is visible in a 'blow-up' as here, showing as a centre line:

 

[The Prussian]

Ah, ok. Now I see it too. You´re absolutely right!

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

On 29/09/2016 at 10:16, trajan said:

Ah, Schuetze... (don't have umlauts on this English keyboard - )

 

You don't need a foreign keyboard to do umlauts Trajan.

Press the ALT key and at the same time, type out the magic numbers, and you can be churning out foreign accents (even Welsh) ones on your True Blue Red Blooded English keyboard.

 

ä   ALT+0228

ë   ALT+0235

ï    ALT+0239

ö   ALT+0246

ü   ALT+ 0252

 

For the whole range of Johnny Foreigner characters, go to the Windows Character Map.(Start>Programs>Windows Accessories>System Tools) where you can select the characters, then Copy and Paste them.

 

 

 

Edited 1 October , 2016 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[trajan]

That is very useful to know, many thanks! I'll try it out on my other boxes that have Windows - it doesn't work on my Mac, my 'travelling and library' box and which I am using now...

[GWF1967]

First offering is blank on the back. 

Beer o'clock .