bierast Posted 6 June , 2015 Share Posted 6 June , 2015 So, thanks Andi! Just one thing, though, they have the loops for shoulder straps, but it is the LACK of shoulder boards which helps establish the Saxon identity? No... it merely helps (together with the insignia) to establish their identity as members of a post-war Freikorps unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 June , 2015 Author Share Posted 6 June , 2015 Thanks for the continued expert contributions. Getting to the last few now until my next lot (bought largely unseen) arrives. These have the feeling of pre war images to me (with perhaps the exception of the drummers of Rgt 119) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 June , 2015 Author Share Posted 6 June , 2015 Drum appears to read : Stadt Kapelle ? Kreuse Rendsburg I assume these are artillery or cavalry as they are armed with Kar 88s Different looking uniform with crossbelt - perhaps earlier? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWK Posted 6 June , 2015 Share Posted 6 June , 2015 band.jpg Drum appears to read : Stadt Kapelle ? Kreuse Rendsburg Chris, "Stadtkapelle" = "City-Fanfare" = "City-marching band" = (What ís the word for that in English : the local hoompah-band) Brilliant picture btw! Infanterie-Regiment „Herzog von Holstein“ (Holsteinisches) Nr. 85 was stationed in Rendsburg apparently. JW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 7 June , 2015 Share Posted 7 June , 2015 This thread is quite an education...keep going! As a total aside, has anyone ever compiled a list of German regiments that have known photographs? I wonder if there are any parts of the army for whom no photos exist (or are known to exist)? Carry on! Daniel[/quote There is an excellent 3vol series - "the imperial German armies in field grey - from contemporary photographs" which has photographs of men in the majority of ww1 units. I am travelling (fieldwork) and so away from home but Google it or I can provide further details when I get back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 7 June , 2015 Share Posted 7 June , 2015 Kar88.jpg I assume these are artillery or cavalry as they are armed with Kar 88s Different looking uniform with crossbelt - perhaps earlier? Chris I am guessing cavalry because of the tunics the chaps on the right are wearing. After feld Grau introduced (1907?) and before spring 1915 as they still have swords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 8 June , 2015 Share Posted 8 June , 2015 Thanks for the continued expert contributions. Getting to the last few now until my next lot (bought largely unseen) arrives. These have the feeling of pre war images to me (with perhaps the exception of the drummers of Rgt 119) IR119w.jpg As you probably know by now, this is the Grenadier-Regiment Königin Olga (1. Württembergisches) Nr.119 - http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Gren.R_119 Had some free time to look at this one again and noticed that there is writing visible - any chance of adjusting contrast, etc., to see what it says? Also, interesting 'men' caricatures on the pillars of the building behind the band - two on the left one; one chest and up on the next; one head and shoulders next to that; and another pair on the pillar on the right. Wonder what they mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 8 June , 2015 Share Posted 8 June , 2015 Kar88.jpg I assume these are artillery or cavalry as they are armed with Kar 88s Different looking uniform with crossbelt - perhaps earlier? Chris Those double-breasted tunics may be Württemberg? - See:http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/waffenrock.htm In which case with a single line of piping over Swedish cuffs perhaps one of that kingdom's Feld-Artillerie-Regiments, so ???FAR König Karl (1. Württembergisches) Nr. 13 OR FAR Prinz-Regent Luitpold von Bayern (2. Württembergisches) Nr. 29 OR 3. Württembergisches Feld-Artillerie-Regiment Nr. 49 OR 4. Württembergisches Feld-Artillerie-Regiment Nr.65... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 9 June , 2015 Share Posted 9 June , 2015 Kar88.jpg I assume these are artillery or cavalry as they are armed with Kar 88s Those double-breasted tunics may be Württemberg? - See:http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/waffenrock.htm In which case with a single line of piping over Swedish cuffs perhaps one of that kingdom's Feld-Artillerie-Regiments, so ???FAR König Karl (1. Württembergisches) Nr. 13 OR FAR Prinz-Regent Luitpold von Bayern (2. Württembergisches) Nr. 29 OR 3. Württembergisches Feld-Artillerie-Regiment Nr. 49 OR 4. Württembergisches Feld-Artillerie-Regiment Nr.65... I did initially wonder if they were Württemberg Dragoons because of the cuffs, but their hat band was a distinctive white (Drag.Reg.25) or yellow (Drag.Reg.26), and the ones here are dark and so I followed the artillery route... However, being rushed around with things at the time I had not taken into account that yellow can appear as 'black' in a photograph... And so now back home with some time to spare I followed that up and have now seen a postcard of a NCO from the Drag.Reg.26 which shows him with a 'dark' hat band, which is explained away as being because of the method pf photography. In which case, perhaps / probably a revision needed here - these guys are members of the Drag.Reg.26 with a mixture of early and late tunics (Drag.Reg,25 had litzen). Another pointer to their possibly being dragoons is the tunic piping: artillerymen had red, but what we see here is a lightish colour, and so possibly yellow? does anything show of the shoulder boards? Drag.Reg.26 had yellow ones with a crown over a stylised 'W'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 10 June , 2015 Share Posted 10 June , 2015 This thread is quite an education...keep going! As a total aside, has anyone ever compiled a list of German regiments that have known photographs? I wonder if there are any parts of the army for whom no photos exist (or are known to exist)? Carry on! Daniel[/quote There is an excellent 3vol series - "the imperial German armies in field grey - from contemporary photographs" which has photographs of men in the majority of ww1 units. I am travelling (fieldwork) and so away from home but Google it or I can provide further details when I get back. Fantastic...thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 12 June , 2015 Author Share Posted 12 June , 2015 A few more here for Julian - these all look to be carrying Ersatz Bayonets....I think. Odd looking chest adornment here - a medal ribbon or....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 12 June , 2015 Author Share Posted 12 June , 2015 Some nice details on these group shots. Some have writing on the back that I am working on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bierast Posted 12 June , 2015 Share Posted 12 June , 2015 Odd looking chest adornment here - a medal ribbon or....? It's an old pre-war style ribbon bar, later superceded by the smaller and more subdued style we are all familiar with. The 'E' is for 'Eisenbahntruppen' (railway engineers) but should have a small number underneath for all except the Bavarian battalion - and this fellow has no other Bavarin uniform features. Odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 12 June , 2015 Share Posted 12 June , 2015 But did they have "Gardelitzen"? And what´s about the "Koppelschloss"? Can you recognize anything about its origin? Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 12 June , 2015 Author Share Posted 12 June , 2015 Assuming we are still talking about the first photo of the single individual with an E shoulderboard and old-style medal ribbon, The card is unmarked (no writing/date) but does have a photographer's mark: Franz Jantsch, Photogr. Atelier. Berlin-Schöneberg, Colonnenstr. 26. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bierast Posted 12 June , 2015 Share Posted 12 June , 2015 But did they have "Gardelitzen"? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bierast Posted 12 June , 2015 Share Posted 12 June , 2015 Some nice details on these group shots. Some have writing on the back that I am working on. The first of these four photos (the solo shot) shows a Hessian infantryman of an unknown unit - note the Hessian belt buckle with outsize crown and no motto. The next two probably belong together, and (going among other things by the optimism of 'nach Paris') very likely date from 1914. The unit is obviously Saxon, and would appear to be RIR 102 or LIR 102 (due to the superimposed cross on the helmet plates); another outside possibility is Brigade-Ersatz-Bataillon Nr. 63 (formed and uniformed by the ersatz battalions of IR 102 and IR 103 in August 1914 from then-supernumerary reservists; became part of EIR 32 in 1915). I should be able to work out which unit they belong to if the backs of these photos have place names and/or Feldpost numbers. The fourth photo also depicts Saxon infantry. IR 107, RIR 107 and LIR 107 all existed (as well as Brigade-Ersatz-Bataillon Nr. 48, formed and uniformed by the ersatz battalions of IR 106 and IR 107), but I think in this case it is probably the active regiment - Kgl. Sächs. 8. Infanterie-Regiment 'Prinz Johann Georg' Nr. 107. It looks like some of them may be wearing the unique regimental belt buckle (see below) - can you scan at higher resolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 12 June , 2015 Author Share Posted 12 June , 2015 Thanks Andi Here are some close ups from the last group (107) of belt buckles - the epaulettes (I noticed a couple have coloured piping I don't know it if it is relevant Not sure if these are much help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 12 June , 2015 Author Share Posted 12 June , 2015 On the "nach Paris" group it is indeed 102 (see title) but unfortunately the back is completely blank. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bierast Posted 13 June , 2015 Share Posted 13 June , 2015 Thanks Andi Here are some close ups from the last group (107) of belt buckles - the epaulettes (I noticed a couple have coloured piping I don't know it if it is relevant Hmm... I think I was letting my imagination run away with me on the buckles. Going by the closeups those look like the standard Saxon pattern with crown and motto after all. The coloured piping is in national colours (green and white for Saxony) and indicates that the man in question is an Einjährig-Freiwilliger ('one year volunteer'. I recommend Colonel Robinson's article below for an explanation of the concept. Obviously in wartime it worked a bit differently and 'one year' became 'for the duration', but the prospects for rapid promotion and a reserve commission were even better: http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/new%20OneYearVolunteer.htm Note in passing how the '7' on the shoulderstraps is simply an upside-down '2'. Maybe this simplified the manufacturing process somehow, although these things were chain-stitched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 13 June , 2015 Share Posted 13 June , 2015 a.jpg Odd looking chest adornment here - a medal ribbon or....? b.jpg c.jpg d.jpg Well, as Andi said, this chap has the single 'E' which is used by the Bavarians for their Eisenbahn troops, but no other Bavarian features... And the lower cockade does not look Bavarian... However, the latest edition of Moritz I can access (travelling again so limited to what I have on the box), which is the 1899 edition, just has a single 'E' as representing 'Eisenbahn' with no further explanation... Did the Garde have their own Eisenbahn abteilung? Could explain litzen and the 'E'! As for the bayonet on this chap, yes, probably one of the EB 03-08 series, with the double bolster / crossguard. These came into service use no earlier than late 1914. The troddel looks to be red-white-red or yellow-white red(?), so 2 or 3 Company 1st Batallion. The second chap seems to have one of the EB09-13 series, single bolster/crossguard, but I am not quite certain of his troddel: light over dark over light could 5th, 7th, 9th or 13th... The third one has what looks to be one of the EB03-08 series, and his troddel looks to be white-red-white, and so 5 Company II Batailion, or possibly white-blue-white, and so 13 MGK, which would suit the ersatz bayonet better - but is by no means conclusive! No idea as to the last chappie's bayonet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 13 June , 2015 Share Posted 13 June , 2015 Some nice details on these group shots.... Indeed, and thanks for sharing them! Andi has sewn up most of the uniform details, so just to add that IIRC, the S.98 began to be phased out of service in late 1914 and was certainly uncommon by the end of 1916, having been progressively replaced by the 98/05 as the principal service bayonet from mid-1915 onward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Feledziak Posted 13 June , 2015 Share Posted 13 June , 2015 Hmm... I think I was letting my imagination run away with me on the buckles. Going by the closeups those look like the standard Saxon pattern with crown and motto after all. The coloured piping is in national colours (green and white for Saxony) and indicates that the man in question is an Einjährig-Freiwilliger ('one year volunteer'. I recommend Colonel Robinson's article below for an explanation of the concept. Obviously in wartime it worked a bit differently and 'one year' became 'for the duration', but the prospects for rapid promotion and a reserve commission were even better: http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/new%20OneYearVolunteer.htm Note in passing how the '7' on the shoulderstraps is simply an upside-down '2'. Maybe this simplified the manufacturing process somehow, although these things were chain-stitched. Good point about the number 7 - it does look like an upside down 2 - but you could not do it with a 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 15 June , 2015 Author Share Posted 15 June , 2015 Here is another example of the 7/2. This looks like a very young group Shoulder tabs read 179 and pencilled on the reverse is R179 Leisnig Seem to show a different pattern of tunic two colour with covered buttons and with very deep cuffs. My new lot of photos arrived. Rather a lot of commercial/post-war "tourist" cards in amongst them but also some nice images. I will get my scanner going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bierast Posted 15 June , 2015 Share Posted 15 June , 2015 Here is another example of the 7/2. This looks like a very young group Shoulder tabs read 179 and pencilled on the reverse is R179 Leisnig Seem to show a different pattern of tunic two colour with covered buttons and with very deep cuffs. Definitely Kgl. Sächs. 14. Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 179, specifically the I. Ersatz-Bataillon in Leisnig (the building in the background is recognisable as part of their barracks), ca. 1916-1918. The tunic in question is just the usual M1915 Feldbluse - the areas where the cloth is doubled over (e.g. the barrel cuffs and the front over the concealed buttons) can sometimes show a tonal difference in photographs. Declining cloth and dye quality meant that the actual shade of feldgrau became increasingly variable, especially once exposed to the elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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