Phil Wood Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 Phil, if you click on the column names in the search results it will put them into alphabetical order - it was always a little variable This may work for the example I quoted - Allaway A J - but what if he were Allaway W J? What it needs is that the records that actually meet the search criteria are listed first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 CLick it again and it sorts in reverse order. As I say, in my experience the search results could always be a little variable, and would occasionally through in a surprise. This may in any case settle down as the system beds in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boreenatra Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 We are looking for a WW1 casualty with the surname of Martin. His first name is unknown but the initial is F. Frederick or Frank or a derivative of those names. How do I search for him under the new search facility as the results are unable to differentiate between Martin as a first or second name. CWGC gives me 915 results, which even when reversed give exactly the same names and in the same order and starts with casualties with the first name of Martin.. Geoff Sullivan gives me 217 with the surname Martin. Who dreamed this up ? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatherC Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 Export the results to Excel (which to be honest is much easier to sort and mess about with) and you will get separate columns for first name, surname and initials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boreenatra Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 .Heather C Thanks for that. While we have exported many results in the past, it has always been the things we needed. We should not have to do this to try and compensate for an inadequte search facility. The new additions seem to add to the CWGC site but the subtractions have made it appear to those of us who know, to be very ungainly and inept, especially as it it used to be fine I do appreciate your reply, but still would like to know if this was designed this way for a reason and what that reason might be...................and also if there is another way to search for our missing man Just to say I have to agree with CWGC when they say "We hope that, with these changes, users will find the experience of searching through our records even more fascinating than before" I certainly did Kind regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatherC Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 It's a fair point Steve and I admit I was surprised to find they'd changed it like that. Since the data can be downloaded with the fields separate it seems odd that the search cannot be done that way too. Why not send them feedback and ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 As someone has said earlier it is difficult to know if the search engine at CWGC is behaving as it is meant to yet. My experience today was that it was ignoring what was put in certain fields. Today I gave it a name and a date reduced to a very small range and it ignored the date limit completely. As one who used to know a little about databases. I am completely baffled why sites are now producing poorer search engines. Do CWGC store the whole name as one field? If not it actually requires a more complex search engine to look for "Martin" as either a forename or surname. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 If you input the full name you will get the result. ie input " frank brown ", and you will get Frank Brown Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 Discover 14-18 looks good? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 glad the new info has been published. Well done CWGC. I might wait a couple of months until the site is not being swamped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boreenatra Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 Mike If only we could input his name, but alas we don't know it !!! He is on one of our local war memorials and we know next to nothing about him. To be fair we couldn't find him before so nothing has changed but surely this is a regressive step that will only make searching more difficult for everyone. Most people on this forum are well aware of how CWGC and the erstwhile Debt of Honour works, as well as the limitations placed upon the database by the actual information it holds. As CWGC only inherited the records, the criticism is not of CWGC but of the unfathomable decision to make the fundamental element of any search i.e. the name so much more difficult. F.Martin may only exist on the database as F Martin......................he may be a non-com and not be there at all, and in fact one name found on the memorial has just been accepted for war grave status, so we think it is important that we try and find if there is any new info in the online documents which may identify him. My concern is also for those who may visit the site for the first time and find difficulties in finding lost relatives because of issues such as the one we have highlighted. It might have been different if the search had always been the way it is now but it has been altered and the consequence is that the search seems devalued because of the way it is now operating. I do know that IFTC have been asked to look at this particular issue, but again I have to ask why this is. If you had reservations about changing the name search facility, then why change it. Surely organisations such as the MoD and CWGC and the like who hold records which are surname based then why introduce an element that makes it less rather than more likely to work efficiently. IFTC wouldn't look for Martin F on the basis of his first name being Martin, which it patently isn't We know this situation is probably a consequence of the changes, rather than some radical new way to search for war dead. As I said in an earlier post , look at findmypast and the huge mess that resulted in a once great, easy to use and understand site, turning into a clone of several US based sites simply to have a coporate look and feel that simply alienated it's subscribers in the UK by simply not listening to the people who pay to keep it up and running. There is no suggestion here that CWGC's new search is part of any other system. Is it coincidental that ABMC has been revamped or is it just that now in 2014 is the right time for this to happen We have written to CWGC and will expect the usual replies, but at least users of this forum will have had a heads up about this as a practical example of IT people simply not understanding how things really work Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin spof Posted 10 July , 2014 Admin Share Posted 10 July , 2014 I too have contacted CWGC to complain about this step backwards and sent them a link to Geoff's Search Engine. I don't expect anything to happen but they need to get teh feedback or else they'll think everything is fine. Just use this form http://www.cwgc.org/about-us/contact-us.aspx Glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 Sorry Steve, and of course, you are right. So that's the final version of the search engine? I will join Glen in contacting them. I think Geoff put his search together in a weekend, and it is brilliant, because it is simple, and does what it says on the tin. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 I don't understand, what person search software doesn't include separation of the name parameters, that's the most important identifier. Well actually I answered my own question CWGC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boreenatra Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 Just a couple of other thoughts on the issues raised. Geoff's site has been fantastic over the years, and he should be congratulated for not backing down and keeping his site up and running, although as it is a static version of the record search of CWGC, it is not quite the same thing, but it will certainly do for all of us !!. Why is it that the one thing on the record search section of the CWGC search page to change was the name search. The rest of it is the same as it was. Again there has to be a reason for that to happen. Looking at the F Martin case made us think that this isn't an isolated case. We have Abraham / Alexander / Austin / Bernard / Bill / Bradley / Brewster / Crawford / Clark / Colin / Cormack / Curtis / Daniel / Davis / Dean / Denis / Drew / Ellis / Franklin / George through to Wilson and Wallace to name just a few, and with many more that although unusual, have surnames which are used as first names. The majority of those who have expressed opinions through various sources have indicated they would like a return to how it was (why would you want to keep this like it is anyway?) It would show CWGC in a good light if they simply changed it back whilst at the same time telling us why they felt the need to change it in the first place. By the way , will CWGC in it's own offices use the same search system or do they have a different method that they use internally ? Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 Discover 14-18 looks good? I am afraid I am a bit disappointed in it, to be honest. I suppose it is aimed at "accessibility" to the subject. The digitised records are very welcome. I can't understand at all why they have changed the name search - that seems unnecessary and is not helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 Steve Based on information just received by the In From the Cold Project from CWGC, my understanding is that the Commission accepts that search is not working as it should. They will be returning "Advanced Search" to an exact form of search but will leave the basic name search as "fuzzy" . A number of other issues are also in hand for rectification. It'll take a few days to get it properly sorted. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boreenatra Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 Chris and John Thanks for that..................a nice touch from Geoff Sullivan renaming the site Geoff's Simple Search Engine. We have contacted Peter Francis, the Media and Marketing Manager at CWGC and asked him to do a search on his surname.............the score is CWGC 9,707, Geoff Sullivan (with the subtraction of a few double barrelled names), 506 This has once again demonstrated the power of the GWF Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boreenatra Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 Chris Perhaps we should be flagging up The Long, Long Trail in as many posts as we can................is that allowed ? !!!!!!! Kind regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 I don't really get your drift, Steve. Why would you do that, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boreenatra Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 Because I think it is a fine educational website, well put together, informative and easy to navigate For anyone interested (and I think we all are) check this link http://www.1914-1918.net/army.htm Kind regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 I think the LLT gets its share of mentions already and to post a link to it which has absolutely nothing to do with the title of this thread beats me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 I think the LLT gets its share of mentions Including the link at the top left of this and every page of the forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 Errrrm we already have a link in the top left hand corner of the forum. I don't understand the post. Why would we need another one? And, how would having another LLT link tie into the CWGC? Or, do you mean that the new CWGC page should have a link to the LLT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigronhartley Posted 10 July , 2014 Share Posted 10 July , 2014 Hello Phil Thanks for the information, much appreciated. Regards Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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