The Crimson Field - BBC drama series

[Steven Broomfield]

Mr Regiment: you're a man after my own heart. I couldn't agree more with you. Hear, hear.

[David Ridgus]

I have to say I've been absolutely underwhelmed by everything produced to mark the centenary thus far. Didn't the BBC's press release last year promise the biggest commissioning fest ever? Certainly nothing of substance has appeared yet, nor seems likely to.

Mr Broomfield and I don't see eye to eye on this one and I feel I must come to the Corporation's defence.

It's April of the first year of "the biggest commissioning fest ever". So far this year the BBC have already given us

Television

The Wipers Times

Royal Cousins at War

The Pity of War

Hidden Histories: WW1 Forgotten photographs

I was there - the Great War Interviews

37 Days

The Machine Gun and Skye's Band of Brothers

Ivor Gurney

The First World War (Hew Strachan's series from 2003)

and the admittedly execrable In Crimson Fields

Radio

Music on the brink (Radio 3)

Oh what a Lovely War (Radio 2)

Great War of Words (Radio 4)

Online

13 full length interviews from the Great War on iPlayer in perpetuity

A web page detailing all programming and other cultural events

And no, I'm not suggesting that it's a case of never mind the quality feel the width, and of course at times the quality has been uneven, but it's been a whole lot better than I expected, and to say 'nothing of substance' has been produced seems a very hard judgement.

I'd be interested to here what type of programme would meet your definition of 'substance'

David

[neverforget]

I too would have to come down on the side of reason here.

Considering that we are only three months in, I reckon it`s been a damn fine effort and that we have seen a pretty fair contribution so far.

I can see a few things in David`s list that would come up to scratch for me, and several there that I have felt compelled to watch more than once already.

I`m wondering which of these Mr. B. has seen, because to be fair, some of them weren`t that good, but I also have this vision of him sitting there tongue firmly in cheek. But surely not eh ?

[Welch Regiment]

David, Your question deserves a considered response which I don't have time to construct this evening - apologies. I will reply to you as soon as I have a moment, and once I've caught up with some of the programming you mention, which I haven't yet seen.

[catfishmo]

Yes after all you have read I would recommend the books of Prof Richard Holmes. I understand you wishing to learn everything about the medical services but if you do not look at the whole picture, you will miss further details.

Wow...When you first mentioned this, I thought it was a diary. After reading the reviews, I see why you recommended it. Here's an excerpt from one review:

"Despite the plethora of books produced about Britain's WWI effort, Holmes manages to include a great volume of hitherto negelected information. Some of these topics include: commissioning, pay, ranking differences (permanent, temporary, brevet), compulsory requisitioning of horses, medical treatment, replacements, promotions, religion, liberty, leave, discipline/punishment, mustache regulations, combat training, demobilisation, and return to civilian life.

Thankfully, he also explains the highly complex war-time formation, structure, varying roles, and evolution of battalions, regiments, brigades, divisions, corps, and armies. Holmes also defines the differences between formation types (regular, Special Reserve, territorial, and New Army). In addition, he also relates the jobs of various staff and admin unit members (e.g. Chief of Staff, Adjutant, Regimental Sergeant Major, etc.)."

It is too bad this was not the first thing I read. MANY of these issues have me scratching my head (pay, ranking differences, formation types, jobs of staff) and I assumed I would eventually figure it out in context if I read enough. This shall go to the top of my reading list to provide context for everything else. Thanks!

[David Ridgus]

David, Your question deserves a considered response which I don't have time to construct this evening - apologies. I will reply to you as soon as I have a moment, and once I've caught up with some of the programming you mention, which I haven't yet seen.

No problem. Oh and I forgot the Paxman series 'Great Britain's Great War' which kicked the whole thing off

David

[BJanman]

Misnomber of "Field Hospital": The blurb under this trailer states: "In a tented field hospital on the coast of France.." The whole term 'field hospital' has stumped me in my research. What is a field hospital? Was it a 'real' entity or just a phrase generally used to mean a medical facility close to the fighting? I found the answer in the book Surgery at a Casualty Clearing Station (from 1918-online here) "THE Casualty Clearing Station is somewhat of an innovation in the organisation of the British Army Medical Service; it was first employed in active warfare in the early days of the present war. During the South African Campaign of 1899-1901 a somewhat corresponding unit existed in the shape of the Field Hospital, and when, after the campaign, the Army Medical Service underwent some degree of re-organisation, the Field Hospital was replaced by a unit which was termed a Clearing Hospital, and at an early stage in the present war the designation of Casualty Clearing Station was substituted for that of Clearing Hospital."

I wasn’t going to comment on this because I think it is one of those grey areas, but I’ve changed my mind.

CCSs were set up to be a bit like our A & E department - the casualty turns up and is seen by a doctor and then sent onto a ward or back home (in their case onto a general or stationary hospital or back to the front lines). I have read the RAMC changed the name from Clearing Hospital to Casualty Clearing Station because they didn’t want it to be mistaken as a hospital - thus taking the word ‘hospital’ away.

That said, I have sometimes come across the term ‘field hospital’ being used. I remember the first time I was with the group I travel with over to France and Belgium and a friend read out a diary. It stated the wounded were taken to the “field hospital” and I remember wondering if they meant a CCS or MDS. I was going to look into it but I never did.

I think it is a grey area because it definitely wasn’t an official term but I know it was used during the war.

[auchonvillerssomme]

I would suggest you are right. The term 'Field Hospital' isn't used in the full lists of hospitals etc in 'Location of Hospitals and Casualty Clearing Stations, British Expeditionary Force 1914-19'. Published by the Ministry of pensions.

[auchonvillerssomme]

As well as the CCS's and General Hospitals, there were Stationary Hospitals, Advanced Operating Centre, Operating Centres BRCS Hospital, Military Hospitals, Isolation Hospitals, Detention Hospitals, Sick Sisters Hospital, St Johns Ambulance Brigade Hospital, BRCS Detention Hospital. Plus the numerous miscellaneous units.

[John_Hartley]

They get their advisors from a list of 'experts' in much the same way that the legal profession keep a list of expert witnesses, in my experience someone who tells people he or she is an expert in a subject is generally is far from it.

An ex-colleague used to describe "experts" as people who have some more knowledge of a subject than most people. In a meeting, he used the example of Rorke's Drift - saying that anyone who had watched the film Zulu might be regarded as an expert, as most people won't even have that knowledge of the action. Then he waved his arm vaguely in my direction saying "And John here has read a book on the subject". I sort of knew what he was getting at.

[John_Hartley]

The First World War (Hew Strachan's series from 2003)

I missed this series when it was first on and am thoroughly enjoying it. To my mind, the best of anything so far broadcast on the war this "season".

[Sue Light]

Very near the beginning of the programme there was a shot of a hut within the camp, and it resembled a French Adrian Hut which flared out at the base. Ignoring the fact that I don't think they were used by the British except when they were taken over already set up on a former French site, does anyone know when they were first introduced for use in French hospitals.

Sue

[Guest]

Not sure if this answers your question Sue, I think this is from the Australian War Memorial. PDF download, but it might be of interest, and might help narrow the year down?

static.awm.gov.au/images/collection/pdf/RCDIG1069672--1-.PDF

Mike

Edit You will have to copy/paste URL

[Sue Light]

Thanks Mike - that seems to be quite late, probably 1918 or later when huts of every type were abundant but no idea whether the French used them for military camps early in the war.

Sue

[Guest]

There's an old thread that might give some leads Sue Click

Mike

[Sue Light]

The other thread does suggest they were developed prior to the Great War, so 1915 quite possible

Sue

[kenneth505]

I'm looking forward to episode #2. I think it's pretty fun and I do not think this product has an eye on export to America. Plus there will be another 100 posts to flip through.

[catfishmo]

That said, I have sometimes come across the term ‘field hospital’ being used. I remember the first time I was with the group I travel with over to France and Belgium and a friend read out a diary. It stated the wounded were taken to the “field hospital” and I remember wondering if they meant a CCS or MDS. I was going to look into it but I never did.

I think it is a grey area because it definitely wasn’t an official term but I know it was used during the war.

I have come across it numerous times as well--thus the reason for my initial confusion. I get the idea that the term 'field hospital' was often used as a catch-all phrase to mean any medical facility near the front lines. Someone else suggested it was a catch-all phrase any medical facility pitched in an open field : ) In addition, in the previous war, there was an official medical facility called a 'field hospital' so I imagine the concept was familiar to the general public--old-timers anyway--and thus cropped up in conversation even though it wasn't an 'official' term.

[catfishmo]

Found 19 great pics of Canadian Casualty Clearing Stations here. Pictures include both tented and hutted CCS facilities, clear photos, with good details. Includes operating room, general wards, cooks, nurses quarters, and more. Can't help but wonder how many nurses and orderlies tripped over the tent ropes and stakes provoking a few choice words --and a bruised shin! : ) Guess you quickly learned to stay on the pathway...

[Michelle Young]

I'm not sure looking forward to it is the way I would put it, maybe a morbid fascination to see how bad it will get!

Michelle

[Steven Broomfield]

One thing in this ghastly programme's favour, though: it has often been stated on this Forum (though not by me, I hasten to add) that anything to do with the Great War on TV "must be a good thing". Having never understood the reasoning behind that one, at least this dire nonsense has effectively shot that particular fox.

[Lawsyd]

One thing in this ghastly programme's favour, though: it has often been stated on this Forum (though not by me, I hasten to add) that anything to do with the Great War on TV "must be a good thing". Having never understood the reasoning behind that one, at least this dire nonsense has effectively shot that particular fox.

In fairness, my wife, who only has a vague interst in WW1 has made the same point - that the programme might stir an awareness of the subject that wasn't previously there. After all, apart from those people who were brought up in military families, we all had to start our interest somewhere & I'll bet that when we did we weren't immediately aware of correct salutes or subtleties in uniforms.

[Kjb340]

The shot of a group of soldiers marching off for the Front without any kit at all made me wonder what happened to a wounded soldier's stuff. A wounded soldier might not return to his unit for some time, if at all, or the unit may well have moved since he was evacuated. At what point did his personal things get forwarded on? Whose responsibility was it to see that personal effects were returned to their owners (or sent home to bereaved families)? Sorry if this question is in the wrong place!

[Donald D]

The shot of a group of soldiers marching off for the Front without any kit at all made me wonder what happened to a wounded soldier's stuff......

I noticed the shoulder title was 1 SPTS, which would make them 23rd Battalion Royal Fusiliers.

[keithmroberts]

I have a cunning plan with regard to all centenary TV. I wait for the reviews here. If it gets a rave review, I might try to catch up on I-player or whatever, otherwise I think myself fortunate to have saved the electricity and return to whichever book I am reading. TV plays a very small part in my life. Possibly as much as half an hour a week on average, mostly taken up by rugby and news. Out of season, the dust settles.

Keith