The Crimson Field - BBC drama series

[Michelle Young]

Gibbo you forgot the homosexual officer

Michelle

[NigelS]

Daily Telegraph: The Crimson Field, episode 1, review Interesting that the reviewer also picked up on the point I made in an earlier post about the lack of kit being carried by men off to the front line.

The mention of '.....help at field hospital 25A – “not far from the Front”.... got me thinking - I really shouldn't - It can't be that near, as, as far as I can recall, there weren't the 'crumps' etc of nearby (or even more distant) artillery.

NigelS

[Seadog]

The sad and frankly annoying aspect of this production although perhaps after just one episode my remarks may be premature, is that the subject deserves much better. In my opinion the documentary approach would have been the best with the experiences of the actual nurses etc related together with both archive film and stills with some “then & now” shots included. This formula has always worked well and would have I believe done justice to the bravery and fortitude of all those woman who provided such an essential role in the Great War.

Norman.

[paul leeson]

On the plus side, at least it acknowledged that the hospital had a laundry and mundane tasks like washing bandages had to be done.

Paul

[Stoppage Drill]

Surely you all knew what to expect ?

There is one stock character that Gibbo missed from his list; the liberated female with social attitudes and ideas far ahead of her time.

As I didn't watch it, I can't say for sure if such a fake personage appeared, but I'd put money on it.

[AlanCurragh]

The sad and frankly annoying aspect of this production although perhaps after just one episode my remarks may be premature, is that the subject deserves much better. In my opinion the documentary approach would have been the best with the experiences of the actual nurses etc related together with both archive film and stills with some “then & now” shots included. This formula has always worked well and would have I believe done justice to the bravery and fortitude of all those woman who provided such an essential role in the Great War.

Norman.

I didn't see the programme (and am quite glad I didn't) but the truth is that 10 times more people will watch this as a drama than would as a documentary. Of course if there are inaccuracies then it is very debatable whether that is a good thing, and it is a huge shame that they didn't seem to want to get the basic details correct but the fact is that the success of a programme like this will make it more likely the documentary you are hoping for will get made - the "Real Crimson Fields" may well be in production as we speak

[NigelS]

There is one stock character that Gibbo missed from his list; the liberated female with social attitudes and ideas far ahead of her time.

Another - or possibly the same - the Suffragette who's put her campaigning on hold to do her bit for the war effort...

NigelS

[paul leeson]

I didn't see the programme (and am quite glad I didn't) but the truth is that 10 times more people will watch this as a drama than would as a documentary. Of course if there are inaccuracies then it is very debatable whether that is a good thing, and it is a huge shame that they didn't seem to want to get the basic details correct but the fact is that the success of a programme like this will make it more likely the documentary you are hoping for will get made - the "Real Crimson Fields" may well be in production as we speak

Yes Alan, a good point - bring on 'The Real Crimson Fields'.

Paul

[Michelle Young]

That was the motorbike riding Mairi Chisholm character I think

[Seadog]

Post 112 "the "Real Crimson Fields" may well be in production as we speak"

One can only hope so Alan, your points about the drama approach is a good one but there can also be a place for a DramaDoc conbining both disiplines which has worked well in the recent past in my opinion with such productions as "The Somme" on Channel Four which at least uses actual experiences and real people as the main characters.

Norman

[PhilB]

Then I saw the Corporal wearing a Sam Browne........

I wondered about that. I recall some units in the 50s (mine included) where the guard wore crossbelts, so assumed he might have been a duty corporal of some kind. I did find it odd that the Lt Col spoke down to the other Lt Col as if he was a 2/Lt.

[stripeyman]

On the plus side, at least it acknowledged that the hospital had a laundry and mundane tasks like washing bandages had to be done.

Paul

Would not local French women be doing these none medical/caring tasks ?

[SiegeGunner]

That was the motorbike riding Mairi Chisholm character I think

There are undoubtedly elements of Mairi Chisholm and Elsie Knocker jumbled into this equation. Both rode motorbikes. Mairi was a strong-willed volunteer with elementary training, Elsie was an experienced, trained nurse and a divorcée representing herself as a widow.

[kevmc]

Would not local French women be doing these none medical/caring tasks ?

Bob

Where do programme makers of fiction draw the line? Follow your thought through to its conclusion and you eliminate reason for the programme to be made - as the main characters would not be present.

Kevin

[catfishmo]

How can such an opportunity to pay a centenary tribute to our womenfolk's enormous nursing contribution in the Great War be thrown away like this?

It doesn't have to be! Future people researching WW1 nurses will watch this program as a means to educate themselves. Unless someone points out SPECIFIC inaccuracies, they won't know what was wrong. You guys on here are experts. Share your expertise! I would like to invite (beg!) you to be very specific in what your quibbles are but ALSO tell how it should have been--and provide detail and (ideally) references to primary sources.

Trust me....As someone who is researching WW1 to use as the backdrop for entertainment, getting it right is not easy. We look to people like you for help. If you just say "it was drivel" that doesn't help me do any better than this show.

-There were a few comments about a naval salute. I had no idea there was a difference. I would love for someone to elaborate on that--and perhaps provide a youtube video that shows the difference.

-There was a comment about homosexuality. I know why that doesn't fly for that era, but the next researcher may not.

-I appreciated the comments about laundry and am hoping someone will answer the question asking if ONLY French women did it. It is actually a detail I want to use in my story. I need to know if a VAD, who would otherwise be sent home, could be taken on at a CCS as a laundress. Laugh if you want, but these are the real kinds of questions researchers are looking for. You guys have the answers. If you want us to get it right, help us out by being specific!

[Mark Hone]

Put simply, the British Army and RAF salute with the open hand vertical, palm to the front. The Royal Navy (and American armed forces ) salute with the palm downwards. Interestingly, the American army used to salute in the British manner, until at least as late as the American Civil War, as demonstrated accurately, for example, in the feature film 'Glory'.

I find it difficult to believe that no-one involved in the production of 'Crimson Field' knew this. I'm also fed up of military characters in BBC dramas saluting while bareheaded, which we shall no doubt see in this show as well.

[Guest]

It doesn't have to be! Future people researching WW1 nurses will watch this program as a means to educate themselves. Unless someone points out SPECIFIC inaccuracies, they won't know what was wrong. You guys on here are experts. Share your expertise! I would like to invite (beg!) you to be very specific in what your quibbles are but ALSO tell how it should have been--and provide detail and (ideally) references to primary sources.

Trust me....As someone who is researching WW1 to use as the backdrop for entertainment, getting it right is not easy. We look to people like you for help. If you just say "it was drivel" that doesn't help me do any better than this show.

...but didn't Sue share her expertise, and they ignored it? Click

Mike

[Gareth Davies]

military characters in BBC dramas saluting while bareheaded, which we shall no doubt see in this show as well.

Which will be fine and dandy if the hatless saluters are from the Household Cavalry.

[catfishmo]

...but didn't Sue share her expertise, and they ignored it? Click

Mike

Maybe they did ignore it, but others (if they can find it) wouldn't ignore it. This is the kind of place people will go to try to find the truth--if you guys will help provide it. But we need SPECIFIC DETAILS (and citations and references if you have it, so we can study further for ourselves).

~Ginger

[Mark Hone]

They definitely haven't been cavalrymen, although one was some sort of strange special forces chap in an episode of 'Sherlock' who was also sporting a beard. In addition, BBC military extras usually have no idea how to wear a beret, modelling it in 'mushroom' style and/or the 'French matelot' look, with the strings dangling down at the back. No doubt someone will point out that this is the correct mode of dress for the Royal Corps of Treeclimbers.

[Anneca]

Well that is the end of it for me then. No more viewing of that, I will just read the comments here next Monday.

...................so you think the comments will stop from now until Monday?

[squirrel]

Most, apparently all, of the "extras" had no idea how to wear a peaked cap either.

[ianw]

Maybe they did ignore it, but others (if they can find it) wouldn't ignore it. This is the kind of place people will go to try to find the truth--if you guys will help provide it. But we need SPECIFIC DETAILS (and citations and references if you have it, so we can study further for ourselves).

~Ginger

With respect Ginger, I certainly don't intend to waste any of my time further either watching or critically reviewing this obvious trash. Life is too short . I would recommend anyone charged with making Great War TV drama to do their own research and also approach known experts for their input - and then don't totally ignore this input! Once one has a solid basis of fact then commence your writing and avoid lazy stereotypes and dramatic cliches. In my opinion, there is no shortage of drama in the reality of the Great War.

With reference to the specifically military rather than specifically nursing howlers , it would be interesting to establish how much the hugely respected Taff Gillingham's input was also ignored!

This Forum does not , in my opinion, owe any corrective duty of care to anyone in respect of this dreadful shallow offensive bilge.

[fellop]

I am sorry but unless I am missing some point or other, sadly due to advancing years and perhaps not for the first time, I am amazed at the many of the posts on this subject.

I understand [and this may be where I may be missing the point] and I was under the impression that this television programme is represented as a fictional drama made for television that may have a basis on one or more historical details; the British did have military hospitals in France and Belgium, the was a first world war, there was such a thing as VADs, soldiers did get injured during wartime and so on.

It did mention in the credits that it was based on or the idea was inspired by The Roses of No Man’s Land by Lyn Macdonald.

It is a fictional drama made for television therefore by nature of it being fictional it does not, and it clearly doesn’t, have to have any base in fact or accuracy. So long as the basic plot is based around the story of a group of VADs in France at a [british] military medical facility during the period of the First World War then as far as the programmes producers, directors, writer’s et al are concerned it then does what it says on the tin.

Being fictional should it matter to us, the members here, if the uniforms are incorrect, have some of us nothing better to do than watch the programme or trailers [ and I understand some of us here did not] and then gleefully produce a list of errors and inaccuracies, well perhaps not gleefully and perhaps not a list, there are bound to be inaccuracies, it is a fictional television drama, it’s primary aim is to entertain, they are after viewing numbers not some congratulatory letter about the accuracy of the uniform or the location and title of the fictional hospital during a given time period.

I should perhaps mention I have nothing whatsoever to do with the programme and I am not really surprised to learn that the programme makers did seek expert and professional help and then decided to ignore it, this will sadly not be the last time this happens.

I was approached some 30 years ago via my unit and other official channels when I was a serving WO1 [RSM] to be a technical advisor relating to dress, equipment, foot and arms drill and small arms firing for a television series based on Soldiers in BAOR during the 70s and 80s, a sort of updated Soldier Soldier based in Germany. Needles to say none of it was ever used and the excuse being cited was too much trouble, too costly not enough time and so on.

I do agree with one comment made here in that there will be many, perhaps thousands, who will watch this series and take it all in a totally factual. These are the people no doubt that believe Blackadder goes Forth was based on factual events and that Allan Clarks Lions and Donkeys is some appendix to the official history.

Sadly these people will not take the time to find out otherwise, whatever they see on the box in the corner is true, it’s on the television after all.

The Crimson Fields; Downton meets MASH. There is an off button.

Regards

Peter

[Guest]

" Sadly these people will not take the time to find out otherwise " Just like the producers then?

Mike