Bygone Occupations That No Longer Exist

[Fattyowls]

Walter, no need to apologise; I love the idea of your great grandmother being a strictly amateur knocker up. I was wondering what the going rate for the job was; it's another of those questions I wish had occured to me years ago.

Pete.

[centurion]

During my short time with Templeton's carpets in Glasgow one of my programmers turned out to be an amateur knocker up when four young ladies proved to be ,as the Victorians would have put it - in an interesting condition. One of them was the daughter of the factory union convenor which was as about as good for his general life expectancy as kicking Stalin in the unmentionables. The last I heard of him he was in hiding in Ayr (which was to a Bridgeton Cross lad the equivalent of fleeing abroad) - his wife's family (big in the tongs) were looking for him. Remembering him he was very like the fictional George Gently's detective sergeant in many ways but a cr*p programmer.

[seaforths]

I suspect the Victorians would have described him as a scurrilous rake!

[Fattyowls]

I suspect the Victorians would have described him as a scurrilous rake!

Would the Edwardians have described him as a cad and a bounder? Centurion's tangental tale certainly paints a fascinating picture of the early days of computer programming by the banks of the Clyde.

[Guest tallyman]

Delver........one who digs ditches. No JCBs in the old days!

[Fattyowls]

Delver........one who digs ditches. No JCBs in the old days!

Tallyman, welcome to the forum. Delving; an ancient occupation if it is the same as John Ball's quote "When Adam delved and Eve span, who then was the gentleman?".

Pete.

[centurion]

Tallyman, welcome to the forum. Delving; an ancient occupation if it is the same as John Ball's quote "When Adam delved and Eve span, who then was the gentleman?".

Pete.

A delver was some one who dug, not specifically ditches. There was a proto communist protestant movement in the 17th century called The Diggers (long before Australia was "invented") also known as The True Levelers made up mainly from agricultural workers who adopted the John Ball aphorism as their slogan. Suppressed by Cromwell who, whilst anti monarchist, as a property owning country gentleman was not at home to socialism.

[seaforths]

A delver was some one who dug, not specifically ditches. There was a proto communist protestant movement in the 17th century called The Diggers (long before Australia was "invented") also known as The True Levelers made up mainly from agricultural workers who adopted the John Ball aphorism as their slogan. Suppressed by Cromwell who, whilst anti monarchist, as a property owning country gentleman was not at home to socialism.

Diggers and delvers: Is that not the same as navvies ?

[centurion]

Diggers and delvers: Is that not the same as navvies ?

No Navvies (short for navigators) built initially canals (inland water ways) and then railways and subsequently roads, pipe lines etc initially using explosives and very specialised excavation techniques. Today navvy is often used as a term for unskilled labour but they were very skilled industrial workers indeed doing what was often a dangerous job (and paid commensurately). Diggers and delvers were agricultural labourers and tilled the ground and often got paid wretchedly. Navies went from A to B sometimes for hundreds of miles over the period of a project, diggers and delvers stayed in one place and worked it day in day out

[seaforths]

No Navvies (short for navigators) built initially canals (inland water ways) and then railways and subsequently roads, pipe lines etc initially using explosives and very specialised excavation techniques. Today navvy is often used as a term for unskilled labour but they were very skilled industrial workers indeed doing what was often a dangerous job (and paid commensurately). Diggers and delvers were agricultural labourers and tilled the ground and often got paid wretchedly. Navies went from A to B sometimes for hundreds of miles over the period of a project, diggers and delvers stayed in one place and worked it day in day out

Thank you. I always thought navvies covered all sorts of digging, from ditches to roads but it seems not to be so.

[centurion]

Thank you. I always thought navvies covered all sorts of digging, from ditches to roads but it seems not to be so.

Ditches used to be dug by ditch diggers (sometimes hedgers and ditchers) another skilled trade. A drainage ditch should be dug with a slight slope to get the right flow but not too steep as to encourage erosion or too shallow so as to silt up and the banks need to be angled just right. Todays farmers just stick the mechanical digger in and then moan when their rivers need dredging because too much silt gets washed into them. (that nice Mr Kippling warned years ago that neglected ditches lead to flooding) We still have a traditional hedger and ditcher round here but he works mainly for the wealthy and does beautiful work layering hedges (wish I could afford him) but he's not afraid to pick up a spade.

[BIFFO]

brick hodd carrier on building site

[centurion]

brick hodd carrier on building site

Still exist, there's a new house going up just down the lane and I saw a hod carrier yesterday. Builder's merchants still carry a range of hods

[Andy Wade]

There's a pub in Bradford called the Delvers.

About thirty years ago I worked for a short while in the textile trade for a company called Bradford Warping. I started as a 'Beam Setter' and finished as a 'Warp Dresser'. Beam setting involved bringing an empty beam to the warping machine and setting it up to the correct width to match the width of the warp, then I had to attached the ends to the beam and set the machine going to turn the warp from the large drum on to the beam. Warps are made in sections on to the drum to make up the full width of the warp, sometimes these overlapped each other causing a section mark or a ridge in the warp when it was would onto the beam. These had to be brushed out with the hand to remove the section marks. Once the warp was all on the beam I would tie it all off and wrap the warp with brown paper to protect it and remove the full beam from the machine. The ladies who set up the creels with all the bobbins of yarn and put them on to the drum were called 'Warpers' I also did work in the loading bay moving large boxes of yarn about and occasionally splitting bobbins of yarn by spinning half of the yarn onto empty bobbins/cones. Often we would get enough yarn delivered for a warp but only half the amount of bobbins so every one had to be spun onto empty cones so they had enough 'ends' to make up a full warp. Some warps had in excess of 4000 ends in them, these could be made up with twenty 'sections' on the drum containing 200 ends in each section. I'm not sure how many warpers, warp dressers and beam setters there are nowadays, but with the sad demise of the British textile industry there can't be many about. I have smiled to myself when occasionally stumbling across a 'Warper' on a census record, since I know what it means from personal experience.

I expect this is as clear as mud...

[seaforths]

No, I understand it - warp and weft.

[seaforths]

Some interesting photos here, including lamplighter and knocker up:

http://photos.uk.msn.com/slideshow/photos/extinct-jobs/2xbs1jke#1

Also, an old PABX and reading 5 unit tape...happy days!

[bill24chev]

There's a pub in Bradford called the Delvers.

. I'm not sure how many warpers, warp dressers and beam setters there are nowadays, but with the sad demise of the British textile industry there can't be many about. I have smiled to myself when occasionally stumbling across a 'Warper' on a census record, since I know what it means from personal experience.

I expect this is as clear as mud...

Warpers and Wefters probably still exist around Huddersfield where such companies as Holland & Sherry, Hainsworth's and Dormeuil; also in the West Counter at Fox Brothers, who all still produce high quality British cloth for tailoring.

But probably all called Textile Operatives now which is what Courtauld's used to cover all their non office or management staff in one of the last spinning mills,where my wife worked, in the early 1980's.

[centurion]

Item on the news couple of days ago about how "Made in Huddersfield" was now a mark of luxurious high quality gents suiting in China

[Rollerbeadle]

You don't see many typists about these days either.......

[seaforths]

The ice harvesting looks pretty cool (sorry) but there was, I believe, at some point, a small man made lake close to the salmon fishing station at Tugnet and the nearby cottages where my great, great grandparents lived were and still are called Lakiehead. I can only assume that in addition to using ice from the river they had created the lake for ice harvesting. It's not there now and is farming land.

[Khaki]

'Gum diggers' (New Zealand) a significant industry in the 19th century in the North of NZ, digging up the buried gum deposits of ancient forests, for I believe the manufacture of varnish.

khaki

[seaforths]

Warpers and Wefters probably still exist around Huddersfield where such companies as Holland & Sherry, Hainsworth's and Dormeuil; also in the West Counter at Fox Brothers, who all still produce high quality British cloth for tailoring.

But probably all called Textile Operatives now which is what Courtauld's used to cover all their non office or management staff in one of the last spinning mills,where my wife worked, in the early 1980's.

Item on the news couple of days ago about how "Made in Huddersfield" was now a mark of luxurious high quality gents suiting in China

A Yorkshire company still in operation and making for M&S among others:

http://www.moons.co.uk/about-us/history/

[centurion]

Men who mined micaceous hematite (once used to make ink) were known as treacle miners (the residue from the ink making process does look like molasses) this, coupled with various hoaxes, jokes, Terry Pratchett and Ken Dodd, has given rise to the spurious story of treacle mines which one can ardently deny ever existed - but treacle miners did even if they didn't actually mine treacle.

[neverforget]

My great grandad, K.I.A. was down as a lime kiln labourer. After checking it it out, if the post did still exist these days, I don`t think that there would be many applying for it.

He came from a family of blacksmiths, which again is pretty rare thing nowadays.

On the other side of the family there was a horse driver, and a tram keeper, and a chimney sweep, and a pearl button turner.

Oh yes, and a long line of brick makers.

[seaforths]

Men who mined micaceous hematite (once used to make ink) were known as treacle miners (the residue from the ink making process does look like molasses) this, coupled with various hoaxes, jokes, Terry Pratchett and Ken Dodd, has given rise to the spurious story of treacle mines which one can ardently deny ever existed - but treacle miners did even if they didn't actually mine treacle.

I believe they had plumbago mines before the term graphite was invented. Perhaps they just called it treacle before the term hematite was invented.