Bygone Occupations That No Longer Exist

[Fattyowls]

One of my research interests is a Jarrow lad called Frank Docherty who played for Everton before the Great War. Prior to becoming a professional footballer he and his four brothers were shipyard labourers in the 1911 census. The two youngest were 16 and 14 and are described as Rivet Heater and Rivet Catcher respectively; I've struggled to picture the process but I'm hoping that the 14 year old wouldn't be catching heated rivets. The details are here and I am indebted to HarryBrook and Curlew for their help in finding so much information.

[Khaki]

Steam trains,

Fire lighter, employee who lit the initial fire under the boilers before the fireman arrives

Fireman, maintains the steam pressure by feeding coal into the firebox also keeps water levels in the boiler constant

These jobs may still exist on the Indian sub continent where I believe they still use steam trains

khaki

[Fattyowls]

Steam trains,

Fire lighter, employee who lit the initial fire under the boilers before the fireman arrives

Fireman, maintains the steam pressure by feeding coal into the firebox also keeps water levels in the boiler constant

These jobs may still exist on the Indian sub continent where I believe they still use steam trains

khaki

Still plenty of steam trains in the UK but the firelighter and firemen are likely to be plying their trades for love rather than money. I believe the nearest steam train preservation group to me runs a WW1 narrow gauge locomotive that were used by the French army, I seem to remember it is in horizon bleu and is called "Joffre".

Pete.

[centurion]

One of my research interests is a Jarrow lad called Frank Docherty who played for Everton before the Great War. Prior to becoming a professional footballer he and his four brothers were shipyard labourers in the 1911 census. The two youngest were 16 and 14 and are described as Rivet Heater and Rivet Catcher respectively; I've struggled to picture the process but I'm hoping that the 14 year old wouldn't be catching heated rivets. The details are here and I am indebted to HarryBrook and Curlew for their help in finding so much information.

But he would. They either wore a big asbestos glove rather like an over sized baseball catcher's mitt or used a metal scoop to catch. The heater took the red hot rivet in tongs and slung it to to the catcher who worked with the riveter.This meant the rivet could be in place and hammered before it had time to cool..

[Khaki]

. The two youngest were 16 and 14 and are described as Rivet Heater and Rivet Catcher respectively; I've struggled to picture the process but I'm hoping that the 14 year old wouldn't be catching heated rivets.

An important and skilled job in shipyards, and yes they were often boys one would heat the rivets in a small furnace until the rivets were white hot and they were then thrown to the rivet catcher who would (from memory) catch them in a metal cup and then position them for the riveter who was a mature tradesman.

khaki

[Fattyowls]

Centurion, Khaki, thanks for this; I feared that this might be the case; I'm assuming these are bygone occupations now.

Pete.

P.S. Khaki, I have found a link for the steam railway I mentioned above. It's here and you can see some firemen sitting with their steeds.

[kenf48]

Although not boys here are some Canadian women heating and catching! I think its WW2 but you get the idea.

http://beta.britishpathe.com/video/rosie-pass-the-rivets-aka-ship-building/query/riveting+ships

Ken

[kevmc]

Rivet Catcher ; I've struggled to picture the process

Rivet catching in the 1950s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVjS1DsqYvo

Click on the underlined link "Watch on You Tube"

Kevin

[centurion]

Centurion, Khaki, thanks for this; I feared that this might be the case; I'm assuming these are bygone occupations now.

.

Riveted ship construction was already outdated when it did for the Titanic but it took a long time for British shipbuilders (and British Ship building unions) to catch on which is why both are also endangered species. Welded construction has long since replaced it.

[Khaki]

Sponge diving, they all seem to be synthetic now.

khaki

[centurion]

Sponge diving, they all seem to be synthetic now.

khaki

Not the best ones

[centurion]

Somerset water diviners?

[Tony N]

I have occasionally found the occupations of some of the men interesting, mainly because they no longer exist today. My granddad for example was a stable boy before the war and I have no doubt that occupation still exists in some form - perhaps stable hand operative - or something more modern.

Probably stable technician

I was an accounting clerk up till August just gone so that's still in use by the assurance/underwriting field as already mentioned as well as accounting.

What about carman. I think it was someone who drove horse drawn vehicles but I'm not 100% sure.

Tony

[bill24chev]

The "driver's" of Electric Multiple Unit Trains were called powermen on the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway and and I think the same on the Southern and into BR days. Is the person in control of any type of train now all called drivers?

[Fattyowls]

Rivet catching in the 1950s:

Kevin

Kevin, that is tremendous, thanks. I'm wondering if the elder Docherty brothers would have started as rivet catchers and heaters then graduated when their reflexes slowed down (or their bottle went). Either way it is a skill to be marvelled at.

[rolt968]

Striker could be

1. A blacksmiths assistant
2. A railway worker involved in track laying
3. A yarn maker
4. A knitter
5. Some one who levelled off a heaped measuring bowl (usually of grain) with a stick or cord
6. A harpooner on a whaler

1 and 2 wielded a hammer but 3, 4 and 5 derive from an old German word (stric or strik) for cord

One more although it is unlikely to be found in the UK. I would be glad if someone could explain its derivation. Also if I've got it right!

In the US Navy a "striker" was an OR who having joined without a trade sought to better himself by acquiring trade status in the navy as distinct from a man who joined with trade.

[Guest exuser1]

One for the Poilus: Onion Johnny (French onion seller on a bicycle Peddling his wares in the UK), a calling which if it hasn't already disappeared, can't be far from doing so. Can't say I've seen or heard of one since the 60s, although possibly the modern day equivalent might be found at a local 'French' or 'Continental' market?

NigelS

In a way yes you just pick your ,eggs ,veg ,or whatever you grow or raise take it to a local market and sell to passers by,some markets such as St Omer and Deveres have areas set for these little operations ,even seen people selling mussels in a supermarket carpark ,in fact soon will be doing the same ,infact i deliver eggs to some of the expats here either on a 1940s delivery bike or a Willys Jeep .

[centurion]

In a way yes you just pick your ,eggs ,veg ,or whatever you grow or raise take it to a local market and sell to passers by,some markets such as St Omer and Deveres have areas set for these little operations ,even seen people selling mussels in a supermarket carpark ,in fact soon will be doing the same ,infact i deliver eggs to some of the expats here either on a 1940s delivery bike or a Willys Jeep .

except that if I remember correctly these johnnies (or Jeanies) collected their onions from a local depot and when they'd sold one lot went back to the depot for some more. They had nothing to do with growing them.

[Khaki]

Pharmacy/chemist delivery boys on bicycles (too dangerous)

khaki

[Guest exuser1]

except that if I remember correctly these johnnies (or Jeanies) collected their onions from a local depot and when they'd sold one lot went back to the depot for some more. They had nothing to do with growing them.

True in East London back in the 1960s i rember seeing them come out of East India dock gates on bikes to flog their wares to the ladys of the East End then see them trundle back and forth over the day,point is France still seems to have this one man and his band operation ,no HE to check thee eggs or what ever they sell ,something we have lost in UK not pseudo Farmers Markets but one nloke and his veggie patch earning a few bob ,or euros.

That reminds me when i left school back in 1974 you could still get a job in London as a telegram delivery boy .

[seaforths]

I came across a woman in the Morayshire Roll who served in France as a stenographer.

[bill24chev]

I came across a woman in the Morayshire Roll who served in France as a stenographer.

Another name for a shorthand typist but Wkki also mentions it's a use of coded messages.

[seaforths]

Another name for a shorthand typist but Wkki also mentions it's a use of coded messages.

I know they were used in courts to record proceedings but I'm not sure if that's still the case ('scuse the pun). I'm not entirely sure what her role would be going out to France. Unless perhaps they were employed at Courts Martial.

[ph0ebus]

They absolutely still use stenographers today in the American court system. Given that I will imminently be serving jury duty, I will be able to give first-hand confirmation of this shortly.

-Daniel

[centurion]

Another name for a shorthand typist but Wkki also mentions it's a use of coded messages.

There is a subtle difference, very little made these days. A shorthand typist was able to take short hand (as the name suggests) by hand and type it up later but a stenographer used a specialised machine with a shorthand key board to capture it. Years ago I gave evidence to a H of C committee and the event was captured by a stenographer. She then sent me the English translation of my evidence and I had to spend hours correcting all the errors before the result was enshrined in the public record.