centurion Posted 21 February , 2014 Share Posted 21 February , 2014 Where there still sin eaters in the WW1 period? I have come across references as late as the end of the 19th century Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 21 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 21 February , 2014 Where there still sin eaters in the WW1 period? I have come across references as late as the end of the 19th century 'Last 'sin-eater' celebrated with a church service':http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-11360659 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 21 February , 2014 Share Posted 21 February , 2014 Where there still sin eaters in the WW1 period? I have come across references as late as the end of the 19th century http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-11360659 Hardly conclusive evidence but this report suggests 1906 David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 21 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 21 February , 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-11360659 Hardly conclusive evidence but this report suggests 1906 David SNAP! (Sorry - same link posted ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 21 February , 2014 Share Posted 21 February , 2014 SNAP! (Sorry - same link posted ) My apologies you were on first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 21 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 21 February , 2014 My apologies you were on first! No apology needed - Great minds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aradgick Posted 2 March , 2014 Share Posted 2 March , 2014 Donkeyman - a passenger carriage driver Andrewr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 2 March , 2014 Share Posted 2 March , 2014 Donkeyman - a passenger carriage driver Andrewr Donkeyman - man who operates a ship's crane (powered by a donkey engine). With the move to containerisation a nearly vanished trade bur one that still exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 2 March , 2014 Author Share Posted 2 March , 2014 Railway ticket collector or the lad who sold them must be a job now fast disapearing . I agree most stations you now seem to go through a ticket turnstile and the guard rarely checks tickets on the journey. I haven't seen railway porters for years. You can't even get a luggage trolley these days and luggage storage on trains is abysmal. I think it has been done deliberately to limit the amount of luggage you can take. At one time the platforms abounded with porters ready to help you by hand or with a trolley. You used to also have to purchase a platform ticket to see someone onto their train too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exuser1 Posted 2 March , 2014 Share Posted 2 March , 2014 I agree most stations you now seem to go through a ticket turnstile and the guard rarely checks tickets on the journey. I haven't seen railway porters for years. You can't even get a luggage trolley these days and luggage storage on trains is abysmal. I think it has been done deliberately to limit the amount of luggage you can take. At one time the platforms abounded with porters ready to help you by hand or with a trolley. You used to also have to purchase a platform ticket to see someone onto their train too. In fact at Aylesford Kent a few years ago i went in to the stations ticket office to buy a ticket ,it was now a Indian take away ,the ticket machine (broken) was on the platform ,and station completly unmaned,and before someone leaps in with the cctv argument i was a project manager for ADT involved in cctv and its a waste of time . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill24chev Posted 2 March , 2014 Share Posted 2 March , 2014 At one time the platforms abounded with porters ready to help you by hand or with a trolley. You used to also have to purchase a platform ticket to see someone onto their train too. I remember that platform tickets could be obtained from a machine for 3d in the sixties, this was probably the thin end of the wedge for the production and introduction of the ticket machine. I remember the machine running out of tickets in the last days of steam when two steam hauled specials called at Bolton One pulled by the Flying Scotsman the other by Oliver Cromwell ( a BR Pacific engine not the man) with two of Bolton Sheds engines attached as pilot engines. It must have been before April 1968 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 2 March , 2014 Author Share Posted 2 March , 2014 I can remember they were bought from someone that had a machine a bit like a bus conductor and they gave you a ticket and they also had a static ticket machine. As you pointed out probably the thin end of the wedge as the men vanished and only the machine remained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exuser1 Posted 4 March , 2014 Share Posted 4 March , 2014 Still recall the huge left luggage at Liverpool St Station in London superb service ,and all those kiosks on the platforms great days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 4 March , 2014 Share Posted 4 March , 2014 I can remember they were bought from someone that had a machine a bit like a bus conductor and they gave you a ticket and they also had a static ticket machine. As you pointed out probably the thin end of the wedge as the men vanished and only the machine remained. Once got called in to assist KPMG's Muscat office as they were bidding to assist in setting up a State owned Omani Bus Company (and apart from having a "does Middle East stuff" stamp on my forehead my records showed I had once done some work for CIE when they ran the buses in Dublin). Discovered that such machines had became incredibly complex being little PCs and at that stage well beyond the pay grade of the sort of guys they were recruiting (well to be brutally honest renting from third country gang masters) as conductors As it turned out that no Omani National would be seen dead on a bus the whole scheme fizzled out anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithmroberts Posted 5 March , 2014 Share Posted 5 March , 2014 I have come upon a few "doffers" during my research. Only to be expected in a textile area of the West Riding. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eairicbloodaxe Posted 5 March , 2014 Share Posted 5 March , 2014 I have come upon a few "doffers" during my research. Only to be expected in a textile area of the West Riding. Keith Doffers used the products provided by the doffing plate maker mentioned in my earlier post... Regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill24chev Posted 5 March , 2014 Share Posted 5 March , 2014 I have come upon a few "doffers" during my research. Only to be expected in a textile area of the West Riding. Keith Don't know if it was a job title in the Lancashire Cotton mills but it was task involving removing empty bobbins or spools and replacing with full ones, know as doffing off. Doff is an old English word meaning to take off as in to"doff your cap" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 5 March , 2014 Author Share Posted 5 March , 2014 Don't know if it was a job title in the Lancashire Cotton mills but it was task involving removing empty bobbins or spools and replacing with full ones, know as doffing off. Doff is an old English word meaning to take off as in to"doff your cap" I thought Keith's post might be related to Ian's earlier post about the doffin plate maker. When I checked back to the first page I used that dictionary link and found it says that doffers removed full bobbins by association they must have also put on empty bobbins. It doesn't mention doffin plate makers. I can only assume the doffin plates had something to do with the bobbins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill24chev Posted 5 March , 2014 Share Posted 5 March , 2014 I thought Keith's post might be related to Ian's earlier post about the doffin plate maker. When I checked back to the first page I used that dictionary link and found it says that doffers removed full bobbins by association they must have also put on empty bobbins. It doesn't mention doffin plate makers. I can only assume the doffin plates had something to do with the bobbins. The definition (empty on.full off) is the opposite to mine(full on empty off). This depends on which process in the production of the textile is taking place,some processes involve both, for example a spinner would replace empty bobbins off and put full bobbins from the card room on the mule or ring spinner and take off full spun yarn bobbins and replace with empty ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 5 March , 2014 Author Share Posted 5 March , 2014 I just thought that if the mill was producing wool or yarn then empty bobbins would be put on and full bobbins would be removed but if the mill was producing textiles from these materials, the opposite would occur as they would presumably then start with full bobbins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 5 March , 2014 Share Posted 5 March , 2014 I think the correct term was shifters see the old song "Oh, dear me, the mill’s going fast The poor wee shifters canna get their rest Shifting bobbins course and fine They fairly make you work for your ten and nine Oh, dear me, I wish the day was done Running up and down the pass is no fun Shifting, piecing, spinning warp, weft and twine To feed and clothe your bairnies all for ten and nine Oh, dear me, the mill runs fast The poor wee shifters canna get their rest Shifting bobbins course and fine They fairly make you work for your ten and nine Oh, dear me, the world is ill divided Them that works the hardest are the least provided But I must bide contented, dark days or fine There's no’ much pleasure living, off of ten and nine Oh, dear me, the mill runs fast The poor wee shifters canna get their rest Shifting bobbins course and fine They fairly make you work for your ten and nine" A shifter both removed empty bobbins and put full bobbins on in many textile works In my early working life I did a contract IT job for Templeton's carpets in Glasgow (1971) part of which involved designing a new payroll system for their factories in Bridgeton and Ayre. They still employed shifters then but paid a mite more than 10s 9d. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 5 March , 2014 Author Share Posted 5 March , 2014 Thank you for posting it. I had some thoughts of the Scots equivalent earlier and thought sadly, I could have asked my mother had she still been around. She worked in a mill in Aberdeen. I still have her copy of the weaver's prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 5 March , 2014 Share Posted 5 March , 2014 I remembered the song from having heard Ewan MacColl (James Henry Miller) and Peggy Seegar sing it. I believe that it originated from Dundee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 5 March , 2014 Author Share Posted 5 March , 2014 I read it at her funeral. my mother and one of her sisters were sent through to Aberdeen to work at the mill at 15 years old. Their food and accommodation money was deducted at source. My grandma had both of what was left of their wages 'arrested' until they were 18. She only gave them stamps and paper with which they were to write home. My life is but a weaving Between the Lord and me; I may not choose the colors– He knows what they should be. For He can view the pattern Upon the upper side While I can see it only On this, the under side. Sometimes He weaves in sorrow, Which seems so strange to me; But I will trust His judgment And work on faithfully. ‘Tis He who fills the shuttle, And He knows what is best; So I shall weave in earnest, And leave to Him the rest. Not ’til the loom is silent And the shuttles cease to fly Shall God unroll the canvas And explain the reason why. The dark threads are as needed In the Weaver’s skillful hand As the threads of gold and silver In the pattern He has planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill24chev Posted 5 March , 2014 Share Posted 5 March , 2014 I just thought that if the mill was producing wool or yarn then empty bobbins would be put on and full bobbins would be removed but if the mill was producing textiles from these materials, the opposite would occur as they would presumably then start with full bobbins. There are a number of processes that turns raw cotton (that looks and feels a bit like cottonwool )to the fine spun cotton thread ready for sewing or weaving. In the Card Room the cotton is transformed (teased)from a bale of raw cotton into a coarse yarn that is wound onto bobbins that are doffed off and then go to the spinning machines where the bobbins of coarse yarn are doffed on the spinning machine. These then spin the cotton into the bobbins of fine thread.which are dofffed off when full.. I am not sure but I think wool and flax are produced in a similer manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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