Scalyback Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 Impressed with the programme so far. Error for me would be the "Angels of Mons". Paxman states there is only ONE reason, tiredness. Has it not been discussed on the forum that the short story published around the time is the main reason. Not saying lack of sleep from battle is a reason for the angels appearing(I have odd visions on ex) but the matter of fact way his version is given. A thumbs down for me is Mr P's odd brown jacket and scarf combo. The chap needs to fire his tailor! Regards the bearded Sgt, possibly a pioneer one? But I can't see any thing other than Sgt chevrons on show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 There's something at the back of my mind that an armourer Sgt, or engineer type chap was the only one in battalion allowed to wear a beard. Don't ask me where I got that? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 As in the pioneer sgt role I have mentioned? Only Pioneer Sgt and goat majors may offically wear a full set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmar Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 I can barely wait to see Flatulence Ferguson well and truly duffed-up by Falklands Max Didn't Ferguson change his position on the first world war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Wilson Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 I did wonder whether a couple of clips were filmed in 1914 or later. Moonraker Some of the footage re the retreat from Mons may have come from the film ‘Mons’ which was made in 1924, in which Sir Horace SMITH-DORRIEN played himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 As in the pioneer sgt role I have mentioned? Only Pioneer Sgt and goat majors may offically wear a full set. Oh the pioneer sgt that you just mentioned? Yes, that's the one. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glengarry1950 Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 I am half way through reading the book, it covers a bit more in detail than the TV program which is to be expected, but what I have read so far, its weak in detail and subject matter, Gallipoli is very poorly covered. With reference to the snow on the Russians, in the book it was being shovelled from the train wagons seen by a lady in Edinburgh, there were other stories about Russians over the country, this turned out to be a propaganda exercise and not a very good try at that. The whole thing is to English slanted for my liking. The 2nd Bn KOSB sailed from Dunlin on 13 Aug 1914 and engaged the enemy on 23rd Aug 1914 at Lock gate 4 Mons, following onto the Battle of Le Cateau with hundreds killed and continued served throughout the Great War any mention of any of the EIGHT Battalions King's Own Scottish Borderers in the book NO. I under stand that one cant cover every event but if you are going to produce a serious peace work covering what is undoubtedly a momentous period in History, it must be evenly balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 I noticed him, he looked a tough old boot with his white whiskers. (7 mins in to the programme) I wondered why he was allowed to have a beard ? Mick. I have not been able to see it here yet (although a mate with a video feed from the BBC has it recorded for me) Regarding this picture though. I am not sure what it was represented as in the film, but if I had seen this and been asked to identify it here I would be very sure it was not taken in 1914 as he appears to be carrying a Pattern '14 rifle and deliveries did not start until considerably later (1916?). Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 28 January , 2014 Share Posted 28 January , 2014 I thought it weak in that reasons behind actions weren't explained. For example, the Scarborough naval raid was shocking enough in causing numerous civilian casualties, but he didn't explain the purpose behind it - to cause a division of the British fleet by provoking public opinion to push for creation of a rapid response group based closer than Scapa - and thus improve the High Seas Fleet's prospect of defeating the RN in detail, and lifting the blockade. Regards, MikB But that's not the point of the programme. This is a social history showing the effect of the war on British society. The importance of the Hartlepool raid for this programme is purely the psychological impact it had on the civilian population. If you were looking for a military view you would also have been confused by opening battles which had little or no reference to the French, the Schlieffen Plan, the Race to the Sea etc. etc. but an awful lot about how reporting in Britain impacted on recruiting.Personally I thought it was excellent and did precisely what it said on the tin - talk about 'Britain's Great War' David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill24chev Posted 29 January , 2014 Share Posted 29 January , 2014 I have now watched the programme twice and yes it is week on the reasons for going to war, the accuracy of reporting Mons and the retreat and little mention of the French. It does give a feel for how the popuilation as a whole responded to the start ofthe war and the rumour, myth.semitruth and lies that were probably a very good rercruiting serjeant for the New Armies and TF recruiting in 1914. It also showed the lack of understanding of the war, for example. the lady who said a relative had been a casualty at Mons on the 26th Aogust. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil andrade Posted 29 January , 2014 Share Posted 29 January , 2014 Bill, Those of us who are in the know will immediately differentiate Mons from Le Cateau. But for the world at large, the Mons campaign implies the battle of 23rd August and the subsequent retreat. Phil (PJA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickLeeds Posted 29 January , 2014 Share Posted 29 January , 2014 Here is the full shot of Sgt Greybeard and his men. They all look like they are getting on a bit to me. Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 29 January , 2014 Share Posted 29 January , 2014 "Sgt Greybeard" is from the Volunteer Training Corps. I did not have any input on archive in this series so have no idea where that clip comes from or when it dates from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickLeeds Posted 29 January , 2014 Share Posted 29 January , 2014 "Sgt Greybeard" is from the Volunteer Training Corps. I did not have any input on archive in this series so have no idea where that clip comes from or when it dates from. Thanks for the information Paul. They look like old soldiers, the drill was pretty crisp in the clip shown. Cheers, Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill24chev Posted 29 January , 2014 Share Posted 29 January , 2014 k. Thanks for the information Paul. They look like old soldiers, the drill was pretty crisp in the clip shown. Cheers, Mick. Lcpl Jones would have been twenty five years younger in 1914 so he could probably keep up with the drill bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 29 January , 2014 Share Posted 29 January , 2014 Lcpl Jones would have been twenty five years younger in 1914 so he could probably keep up with the drill Jones is described in "The Two and a Half Feathers" by George Clark as "I do remember one Jones - he was always a bit behind everyone else with his drill". This relates to the lead up to the Battle of Omdurman which would be 16 years even earlier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayessex Posted 29 January , 2014 Share Posted 29 January , 2014 Here is the full shot of Sgt Greybeard and his men. They all look like they are getting on a bit to me. Mick. Not the youngest, But how smart were their Drill movements! Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 29 January , 2014 Share Posted 29 January , 2014 He does look he's been around a bit - it's a pity his name isn't known to see. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 31 January , 2014 Share Posted 31 January , 2014 This is from next week`s Radio Times (What`s Getting Us Talking... NEWS) . I don`t know whether it`s serious or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghazala Posted 31 January , 2014 Share Posted 31 January , 2014 These are still to come - will hopefully give us lots to argue about in the coming months Royal Cousins of War BBC2 How European royal relatives ended up on opposing sides and how this led to the collapse of many royal houses. The Pity of War/The Necessary War BBC2 Historians Niall Ferguson and Max Hastings adopt different positions on who was to blame for the outbreak of war and whether Britain was right to enter. There is an interesting piece in The Times today about Niall Ferguson titled "Fighting First World War ‘was the greatest error in our history’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 31 January , 2014 Share Posted 31 January , 2014 There is an interesting piece in The Times today about Niall Ferguson titled "Fighting First World War ‘was the greatest error in our history’ It's also this month's cover story for the BBC History Magazine: all tied to the 'Pity of War' programme Allan flagged up a couple of days ago. The magazine presents Ferguson's argument and then prints interviews with six leading experts (including Margaret MacMillan, Gary Sheffield and Peter Hart). David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 31 January , 2014 Share Posted 31 January , 2014 But that's not the point of the programme. This is a social history showing the effect of the war on British society. The importance of the Hartlepool raid for this programme is purely the psychological impact it had on the civilian population. If you were looking for a military view you would also have been confused by opening battles which had little or no reference to the French, the Schlieffen Plan, the Race to the Sea etc. etc. but an awful lot about how reporting in Britain impacted on recruiting. Personally I thought it was excellent and did precisely what it said on the tin - talk about 'Britain's Great War' David I understand what you're saying, but I'd hoped that Paxo would try to enhance understanding of what went on, with the benefit of a century's hindsight and perspective. What we saw just perpetuated the feeling at the time that the coastal bombardments were atrocities of pure spite with no further objective than causing horror, grief and outrage. The fact that they were directed towards furthering a war aim doesn't lessen the misery - it may make them seem even more fiendish - but it does make them appear less opaque and idiotic. But the opportunity wasn't taken, and the old simplistic view was left in place. Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 31 January , 2014 Share Posted 31 January , 2014 Nothing new from Ferguson. He expounds this view at considerable length in his book 'Pity of War' published as long ago as 1998. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe19612 Posted 1 February , 2014 Share Posted 1 February , 2014 Watched the programme today on BBC I player, the family thought it was good and well presented, however I feel it should have been a lot better. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 1 February , 2014 Share Posted 1 February , 2014 Nothing new from Ferguson. He expounds this view at considerable length in his book 'Pity of War' published as long ago as 1998. Not finished the thing................................just did't take to it or him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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