Jim Clay Posted 4 February , 2014 Share Posted 4 February , 2014 I thought that Paxman was playing 'devil's advocate' in both the cases mentioned above, not expressing Paxman's view. It's what he does. Apart from that, agree with much of what's been said: so far, a fine overview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 4 February , 2014 Share Posted 4 February , 2014 I think it continues to be good. A few of the talking heads (e.g. Julian Fellowes and Lord Tenby) don't seem to have had anything useful to say but apart from this minor cavil I've been pretty impressed so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayessex Posted 4 February , 2014 Share Posted 4 February , 2014 Really enjoyed it, and looking forward to the next Two. If I was a picky kind of chapster, I would say He gave the view that all Glasgow Ship builders were Militant and Anti Government/War. How can this be when the majority would have had Sons fighting on one front or another? My Great great great Uncle, a Glasgow Shipbuilder had Six sons at the Front! Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazelclark Posted 4 February , 2014 Share Posted 4 February , 2014 The wife and I just managed to watch this and enjoyed it. I really liked the juxtaposing of modern imagery with the sepia tones. Especially the trains and the shots of random folk in modern cities. Ken, how are you watching it? Have been trying to access this, and everyone I know in Britain keeps saying "you should be able to get it". the I Player thing or whatever it is says that it only works in Britain although I know for a fact that my niece can get it in Dubai! Thanks, Hazel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 4 February , 2014 Share Posted 4 February , 2014 How to get BBC iPlayer in Canada Hope it works. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazelclark Posted 4 February , 2014 Share Posted 4 February , 2014 How to get BBC iPlayer in Canada Hope it works. Mike thanks so much Mike! Kids will be here on Friday and will get them to set it up! H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 4 February , 2014 Share Posted 4 February , 2014 I enjoy the series and wouldn't bother nit picking - EXCEPT for this: Anyone know if the BBC managed to find a rare variant of the Irish recruitment poster (screen grab right), or did they, for reasons best known to themselves, eliminate the Irish element using Photoshop? I'm suspecting the latter as the sky looks featureless in the screen grab. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 Only one major complaint about the second episode .... he only gave the total casualty figure for 1 July 1916 (about 57,000) and didn't say how many of those were killed (just under 20,000). There will no doubt be thousands out there now who think that 57,000 were killed on the first day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 That has long been the case, given the perennial misinterpretation of the words 'casualty' and the very vague 'lost ' as meaning killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnumbellum Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 I thought this episode was more interesting than the last. In particular the inscriptions on the walls of the prison, the drawing of the inmate's mother on the wall from his photograph. Clearly Paxman's prejudice against conscientious objectors must, unprofessionally, have clouded his presentation if the impression was gained that Richmond Castle, the scene of the celebrated cell graffiti, was understood as a prison. During WW1 the Castle was used by the Army as a barracks and HQ, and the cells were guardroom cells not prison cells - the men were awaiting court-martial, not serving a sentence. Paxman was also misleading in not making clear that the Richmond 16 were fewer than half the total of 35 WW1 COs sentenced to death and then reprieved. He was also unprofessionally careless when interviewing the daughter-in-law of Norman Gaudie (the prisoner who drew his mother) by referring to her father-in-law as "Nigel" rather than Norman. This should certainly have been picked up in whatever is the TV equivalent of proof-reading. Incidentally, Norman Gaudie's son, Martin, late husband of the daughter-in-law, was a conchie in WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazelclark Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 That has long been the case, given the perennial misinterpretation of the words 'casualty' and the very vague 'lost ' as meaning killed. I thought "casualty" meant dead before I joined this Forum. It is not really surprising that the term be misinterpreted. H.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghazala Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 I thought "casualty" meant dead before I joined this Forum. It is not really surprising that the term be misinterpreted. H.C. lol. In my youth I thought conchie was something I would find on the Dorset shoreline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazelclark Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 lol. In my youth I thought conchie was was something I would find on the Dorset shoreline. I thought so too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 I've just invited Paxo to join us via Newsnight. If he ever sees it, hopefully he will join us? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 I`m not sure if conscientious objection is something we can freely discuss, but if it`s OK for Mr Baker, maybe.....! Did objection come in various degrees like vegetarianism and were the ones sentenced to death those who refused to serve even in a non-combatant role? Was promotion of CO a crime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 " I`m not sure if conscientious objection is something we can freely discuss, " Why would that be a problem? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin spof Posted 5 February , 2014 Author Admin Share Posted 5 February , 2014 I`m not sure if conscientious objection is something we can freely discuss, but if it`s OK for Mr Baker, maybe.....! Did objection come in various degrees like vegetarianism and were the ones sentenced to death those who refused to serve even in a non-combatant role? Was promotion of CO a crime? Phil As long as the discussion stays civil and on topic, there wouldn't be a problem. Before starting a new thread, a search for "conscientious objectors" returns the many, many threads where the subject has already been discussed. Glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 I don't understand the comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin spof Posted 5 February , 2014 Author Admin Share Posted 5 February , 2014 I enjoy the series and wouldn't bother nit picking - EXCEPT for this: lusitania2.jpg Anyone know if the BBC managed to find a rare variant of the Irish recruitment poster (screen grab right), or did they, for reasons best known to themselves, eliminate the Irish element using Photoshop? I'm suspecting the latter as the sky looks featureless in the screen grab. Dave Dave That is interesting and worth a thread of its own. There is an existing thread on the Kitchener poster discussing that and perhaps the 2 members who have written books (funfly and JamesMSTaylor) on that poster may have come across the "non-Irish" one while researching their own subjects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin spof Posted 5 February , 2014 Author Admin Share Posted 5 February , 2014 I don't understand the comment. I assume he has forgotten about the changes in administration of the Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 The subject of conscientious objection has never been anything but discussable on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 I enjoy the series and wouldn't bother nit picking - EXCEPT for this: lusitania2.jpg Anyone know if the BBC managed to find a rare variant of the Irish recruitment poster (screen grab right), or did they, for reasons best known to themselves, eliminate the Irish element using Photoshop? I'm suspecting the latter as the sky looks featureless in the screen grab. Dave Good point Dave. Well spotted. I tend to agree that the image was manipulated. I suppose they would argue that they were trying to avoid confusing the viewer - but in that "confusion" lies a story in itself. The image should not have been mangled but used as was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 Dave That is interesting and worth a thread of its own. There is an existing thread on the Kitchener poster discussing that and perhaps the 2 members who have written books (funfly and JamesMSTaylor) on that poster may have come across the "non-Irish" one while researching their own subjects. Thanks SPOF - I've been following that thread and contributed to it. Regarding the manipulation I can't help thinking a zoom shot would have been less trouble and would have had the same effect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnumbellum Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 I`m not sure if conscientious objection is something we can freely discuss, but if it`s OK for Mr Baker, maybe.....! Did objection come in various degrees like vegetarianism and were the ones sentenced to death those who refused to serve even in a non-combatant role? Was promotion of CO a crime? Like many others, I find the suggestion that conscientious objection might be something not to be discussed on GWF puzzling, if not disturbing. It has certainly already been discussed many times and in various aspects. I am not sure whether there are degrees of vegetarianism, unless veganism is counted as a subset of vegetarianism, but there are degrees of conscientious objection - I stress are, because it continues to be a live and relevant topic, as discussed in a recent report by the House of Commons Select Committee on Defence. No two COs are ever quite the same, but there are broad categories - those who object to all war and those who object to a particular war (sometimes called political objectors, but the more useful term is selective objection. Then there are those who refuse to have anything to do with the war machine, including accepting alternative service, known in Britain as absolutists and on the continent commonly as total resisters; on the other hand, there are those who accept alternative compulsory service, but these again subdivide into those prepared only to accept civilian work under civilian control, and those prepared to enter the military, but only as guaranteed non-combatants. The 35 British COs formally sentenced to death in 1916 and then reprieved were among the 6000 WW1 CO absolutists, but their selection for the dubious honour was entirely at random, and there was nothing more special about them than about the other absolutists. The random selection is in part illustrated by the fact that 42 were selected to be sent to France for the June 1916 episode, but in the event only 35 of those were formally sentenced to death. Promotion of conscientious objection was never officially declared a crime as such, but hindering the war effort in any way was made a crime under DORA regulations, and Bertrand Russell was prosecuted for writing a leaflet about the treatment of Ernest Everett, a CO of the period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwood Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 I am really enjoying the series so far ..... Norwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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