PhilB Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 I may have confused CO and Shot at Dawn - they seemed to me to be similarly polarizing subjects. I suppose CO could be seen as partly a political act but not current! Thanks for the response, Magnumbellum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth505 Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 Ken, how are you watching it? Have been trying to access this, and everyone I know in Britain keeps saying "you should be able to get it". the I Player thing or whatever it is says that it only works in Britain although I know for a fact that my niece can get it in Dubai! Thanks, Hazel Hazel, I've PM'd you on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazelclark Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 Hazel, I've PM'd you on this topic. For some reason the PM has not come through? H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth505 Posted 5 February , 2014 Share Posted 5 February , 2014 sorry, soon, still writing it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrough Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 I enjoy the series and wouldn't bother nit picking - EXCEPT for this: lusitania2.jpg Anyone know if the BBC managed to find a rare variant of the Irish recruitment poster (screen grab right), or did they, for reasons best known to themselves, eliminate the Irish element using Photoshop? I'm suspecting the latter as the sky looks featureless in the screen grab. Dave Noticed that one as well Dave, very strange.The piece on the Rising was poor, no backround or context was provided ,for far too long in Ireland we have been told that the only thing of note that happened in the period 1914-1918 was the 1916 rising which involved no more than 1500 participants on the rebel side ,there was little mention of the 200 odd thousand Irish that were in uniform or the c.35,000 that died.Thankfully,we now know different,but these facts should also have been mentioned in the program. We are in danger of repeating the myth that Irish participation in the Great War did not happen and that one week at Easter 1916 defined our contribution to WW1. Regards, M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 Pleasing to see him take a stance on the conscientious objectors and strikers whether one agrees with him or not. Inevitably, 'Paxo's' comment hasn't gone unnoticed elsewhere: From today's Daily Telegraph (6th, February) Paxman 'over the top' on conscientious Anti war campaigners have criticised objectors in the First World War as "Cranks". The Newsnight presenter said in his documentary Britain's War: " The extreme conscientious objectors have always struck me as cranks". A spokesman for campaign group the Peace Pledge Union described the remarks as "unhelpful and silly". He said: "One of the main issues they felt strongly about was the coercive power of the state to force people to kill, and if that is cranky I wish there were more of them." NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarchetta Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 So, I wonder, what will be the dramatic event in the third episode that makes the British civilians realise, for the first time, that this is 'total war' and everyone was involved? Episode one had the East Coast Raids, with people realising this was total war Then, in episode two we had the Lusitania, with people (forgetting they had realised back in December) realising this was total war... Echo previous comments, a few interesting bits of footage I'd not seen before, interesting side notes and interviews, so still worth watching even for a Forumite. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 So, I wonder, what will be the dramatic event in the third episode that makes the British civilians realise, for the first time, that this is 'total war' and everyone was involved? Episode one had the East Coast Raids, with people realising this was total war Then, in episode two we had the Lusitania, with people (forgetting they had realised back in December) realising this was total war... Echo previous comments, a few interesting bits of footage I'd not seen before, interesting side notes and interviews, so still worth watching even for a Forumite. James The G raids. The 1st Blitz as it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 Personally I thought that Paxo's comment was more 'pub talk' rather than what should have been said in presenting the programme, but seems right and proper that the PPU got a chance to answer. Otherwise I was quite pleased by the second programme. Not endorsing all Paxo's conclusions by any means but as a series it is turning out to be a good introduction to the Great War and its impact on the Home Front, For the record I've also joined in some fascinating discussion on GWF about Conscientious Objectors with Magnus Bellum and quite a few others. It would be great to revive one of these older threads. Regards Michael Bully Personally I thought that Paxo's comment was more 'pub talk' rather than what should have been said in presenting the programme, but seems right and proper that the PPU got a chance to answer. Otherwise I was quite pleased by the second programme. Not endorsing all Paxo's conclusions by any means but as a series it is turning out to be a good introduction to the Great War and its impact on the Home Front, For the record I've also joined in some fascinating discussion on GWF about Conscientious Objectors with Magnus Bellum and quite a few others. It would be great to revive one of these older threads. Regards Michael Bully Inevitably, 'Paxo's' comment hasn't gone unnoticed elsewhere: From today's Daily Telegraph (6th, February) Paxman 'over the top' on conscientious Anti war campaigners have criticised objectors in the First World War as "Cranks". The Newsnight presenter said in his documentary Britain's War: " The extreme conscientious objectors have always struck me as cranks". A spokesman for campaign group the Peace Pledge Union described the remarks as "unhelpful and silly". He said: "One of the main issues they felt strongly about was the coercive power of the state to force people to kill, and if that is cranky I wish there were more of them." NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth505 Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 It's a good program for Television History. What adjective should Paxman use instead of cranks? Presuming that's his take and fairly spoken. Zealot would have reaped scorn, idealist perhaps still crank was pretty descriptive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 We are in danger of repeating the myth that Irish participation in the Great War did not happen and that one week at Easter 1916 defined our contribution to WW1. Regards, M. Murrough .... I would be very interested in hearing the sources of the idea that Irish participation in the Great War didn't happen. Who claims this? My perception is that Irish participation in the Great War is well known and well understood by historians. There are plenty of books on the subject. Who plays the Irish participation down? Curious to know. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 Who plays the Irish participation down? Curious to know. MG A considerable number of people in the Republic find it very inconvenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrough Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 Murrough .... I would be very interested in hearing the sources of the idea that Irish participation in the Great War didn't happen. Who claims this? My perception is that Irish participation in the Great War is well known and well understood by historians. There are plenty of books on the subject. Who plays the Irish participation down? Curious to know. MG I agree Martin that "historians" were well informed of Irish involvement but was the general public aware of it ?The Irish involvement in the Great war was glossed over and consigned to a couple of lines in the history books of Irish schoolchildren up until the 80's,and as I said,the 1916 rising seemed to take precedence over all other matters in Irish history in that period.WW1 involvement was relegated to the margins,if it was mentioned at all. In my opinion Paxman is in danger of doing the same thing,no mention of Irish involvement(200,000 who served and 35000 that died), maybe I do him a diservice as there are more episodes to come and he may allude to the Irish contribution, but I wonder do the British public know about Irish participation? if they watched Paxmans program they would think that all the Irish did was stab them in the back at easter 1916.The piece on the Rising was poor,no backround information, no evaluation or assessment of the numbers involved,and no mention of the initial reaction of the Irish people to the Rising. Like I said earlier, there may be more to come on Irish involvement and the program is a very general overview but a little balance regarding Ireland would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrough Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 A considerable number of people in the Republic find it very inconvenient. Maybe some, but it would not be confined to the Republic of Ireland, the inconvenienced and ignorant inhabit both islands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 Maybe some, but it would not be confined to the Republic of Ireland, the inconvenienced and ignorant inhabit both islands. Yes, quite agree, there are no geographical limits on ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tancred Posted 7 February , 2014 Share Posted 7 February , 2014 I have only just caught up on the first two episodes. I agree they were fairly unambitious. This is however the fate of most TV history programmes. A standard 1 hour long documentary usually has a script capacity of 2500 words max (to allow for obligatory snazy montages and music). This is about the length of a moderate A-Level/1st Year Undergrad essay. The subject matter of Paxo's doc is so vast that no enthusiast was ever going to be 100% content with coverage of issues. The documentary would have been far more informative if it was an hour of Jeremy reading from a Seminar Studies... but I doubt this would have garnered a huge audience. The target group is majority therefore the programme had to be entertaining as well as informative. This will inevitably lead to a fairly lightweight approach. Where the show stands to be truly interesting is where it shows what we/the establishment choose to prioritise when we condense our history to the salient factors. This is a decision taken by our media, but also our politicians and teachers. We can learn so much from observing the mainstream. What do we choose to remember November every year? What do we choose remember 100 years on? I look forward to the next episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth505 Posted 8 February , 2014 Share Posted 8 February , 2014 Welcome tancred, your point is well taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 Absolutely superb and held my attention from start to finish. This series must surely set the standard for all those programmes yet to come. A word of praise for the researchers involved whose work has made this such an interesting series. Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctord84 Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 The subject of conscientious objection has never been anything but discussable on this forum. Hear hear. We've put two lectures on the subject in our programme for this year. An important subject, often overlooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anneca Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 I wholeheartedly agree with everything Norman has said and am nearly finished the book which, surprisingly, I have enjoyed so far. Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 11 February , 2014 Share Posted 11 February , 2014 A slip up on tanks? the way it came across was - I may have misheard - that they were introduced ( 'brand new' was used) for the battle of Cambrai in November 1917. NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 11 February , 2014 Share Posted 11 February , 2014 I don't think that was actually said but someone could easily have formed that impression from the way the story of the tanks was presented. There was no mention of them being introduced at the Somme over a year before Cambrai; perhaps that line ended up on the cutting-room floor. To be fair, the focus has been on the Home Front and the series has given little real idea of the chronology of the fighting. It was quite a surprise when Paxo actually turned up in the Ypres Salient at the end of last night's programme. I have enjoyed the programmes greatly, even though it's not, as several people have pointed out, aimed at Great War headbangers. Quite a few of the stories have been new to me. One thing I did notice in last night's episode: in the section on the film of the Battle of the Somme, Paxman gravely intoned '... here were scenes of real fighting' over shots of the most famous faked combat footage in history! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Phillips Posted 11 February , 2014 Share Posted 11 February , 2014 I have enjoyed the programmes greatly, even though it's not, as several people have pointed out, aimed at Great War headbangers. You are right here Mark - the Beeb have certainly met their brief in producing enjoyable, informative programming; it's worth paying for the T V licence. I've never seen myself as a 'headbanger' but the term does fit quite often. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 11 February , 2014 Share Posted 11 February , 2014 A very interesting review in the Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/tv-and-radio-reviews/10629123/Britains-Great-War-episode-3-BBC-One-review.html Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertDubrecht Posted 11 February , 2014 Share Posted 11 February , 2014 One family that had objection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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