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WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards


Lancashire Fusilier

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Lancashire Fusilier

I thought that this example now in the IWM was returned to the UK and used for trials in the UK.

George.

George,

After being in action on the Western Front, the 9.2 Howitzer nicknamed ' Mother ' was brought back for a period of time, and was used at the Gunnery School at Shoeburyness in Essex, however, it was re-barrelled and returned to the Western Front in January, 1918 and remained in service in France and Germany until 1919.

Based on photographs and other references, this appears to be a potted history of the ' Mother ' 9.2 Howitzer :-

The Imperial War Museum's ' Mother ' 9.2 Howitzer was originally sent to Flanders in early October 1914, and the Imperial War Museum have a photograph in their Archive ( see photograph ) showing ' Mother ' set up in Flanders, however, it was promptly moved to Northern France at the end of October 1914, and on the 31st October 1914, ' Mother ' went into action with the 8th Siege Battery at La Couture, and later, was in action at Nieppe and Warneton.

From February to July, 1915, ' Mother ' was in service with the 10th Siege Battery, taking part in the Battles of Neuve Chapelle and Festubert.
It was subsequently returned to England, and used for training at the School of Gunnery at Shoeburyness, Essex, and fired there until it's barrel was worn out.
Then in January 1918, and with it's barrel re-lined, ' Mother ' was re-issued and returned to France, where it remained in service until the end of WW1.
After the Armistice, ' Mother ' served with the 69th Siege Battery based at Wahn Camp near Cologne, as part of the Occupation Force, before being selected to be the permanent 9.2 Howitzer exhibit at the new Imperial War museum housed at Crystal Palace, London.
Sometime in the Spring of 1919 ' Mother ' was dismantled and shipped from Germany on Vickers Travelling Carriages to the new Imperial War Museum building in the Crystal Place, London, where it was re-assembled and put on display at the Imperial War Museum when it opened on 9th June 1920 ( see photograph ).
The first photograph, shows the 9.2 Howitzer ' Mother ' set up in Flanders in early October 1914.
Regards,
LF
IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

The 9.2 Howitzer nicknamed ' Mother ', on display at the new Imperial War Museum in the Crystal Palace, along with guns from ' E ' Battery and ' L ' Battery ( Nery Gun ) Royal Horse Artillery.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Is there some sort of competition as to who can post the most photo's ???

Sorry, just had to say that, no harm intended.

What occurred to me is how did they transport the gun from Crystal Palace to Lambeth ???? Was it dismantled as per the original, or transported complete. I guess we will never know, unless someone at the museum may have info.

George.

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post-111198-0-27363400-1448025066_thumb.LF,

Just noticed on your photo #4021, the gun layer has his foot on the quick release pedal, this enabled the barrel to be lowered to the loading position rapidly....hence the elevating wheel on this side.

My photo of the same area shows the pedal fitted off to one side. I must assume that as these platforms were removable for transporting, the pedal and connecting rod were "stowed", then re-positioned on the platform when emplaced.

Learning some thing new is the joy of this site.

This is one photo I have not seen before, I thought I had gone through all the IWM collection...thanks.

George

Edited by Modelmaker
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Lancashire Fusilier

What occurred to me is how did they transport the gun from Crystal Palace to Lambeth ???? Was it dismantled as per the original, or transported complete. I guess we will never know, unless someone at the museum may have info.

George,

Remember, the the 9.2 ' Mother ' Howitzer was involved in several moves, firstly to the IWM at Crystal Palace, then to the IWM South Kensinngnton, and then finally, to it's current home at the IWM on Lambeth Road.

Thankfully, from photographic evidence, we do know how the 9.2 ' Mother ' Howitzer was moved from Crystal Place to South Kensington.

It was certainly dismantled, and in the attached photographs we see the Howitzer's ' Barrel ' fitted back onto it's Vickers Travelling Carriage, and then towed behind a lorry for the journey from the Crystal Palace on Sydenham Hill to the new IWM at South Kensington.

Another photograph appears to show the 9.2 Howitzer's Carriage and Cradle loaded on a lorry for that same journey.

The first photograph shows an excellent view of the ' Mother's ' barrel loaded on it's Vicker's Travelling Carriage ready for the journey from Sydenham Hill to South Kensington.

Regards,

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

Another excellent photograph showing the ' Mother ' 9.2 Howitzer's move from the Crystal Palace on Sydenham Hill to the new Imperial War Museum at South Kensington.

This photograph clearly shows the Howitzer's Barrel fitted back on it's Vickers Travelling Carriage, which is attached to a lorry for towing to South Kensington, along with another Field Gun exhibit.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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LF,

Fan-ruddy-tastic photos,

These are completely new to me, where on the IWM site were they? Seemingly not on the "9.2"howitzer" collection, were these sourced directly from the library archives??

They would have helped during the initial research stages, the manual had drawing, but the most useful to me at the time was this from the AWM website.

A damaged carriage that showed the side plates that the brake mechanism was attached to, this area was a bit "iffy" on the drawings.

Thanks for these, they go to prove I got it right (mostly).

George.

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Lancashire Fusilier

LF,

Fan-ruddy-tastic photos,

Thanks for these.

George,

Thank you, I am pleased you enjoyed seeing them.

Regards,

LF

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Lancashire Fusilier
The Imperial War Museum at Crystal Palace, Sydenham Hill, London, was opened by King George V on 9th June 1920.

The Imperial War Museum Act was passed in July 1920, making the museum truly official - with a Board of Trustees and the right to hire staff, own property and acquire objects for its collections recognised in law.

Despite Sydenham Hill's distance from central London, by 1924 some four million people had visited to the Imperial War Museum where 500 tons of exhibits were on display. However, the Crystal Palace's glass structure made climatic conditions too variable to keep the art and many other items in the collection safely, and as the Crystal Palace lease neared its expiry date in March 1924, it became clear that the museum would have to find a new location and dramatically downsize. The new venue offered was the Western Galleries of the Imperial Institute in South Kensington, a space less than a quarter the size of Crystal Palace.

As a direct result of the need to downsize, a large proportion of the museum’s exhibits were disposed of and its entire aircraft collection was loaned to the Science Museum and sadly, some of the exhibits were actually destroyed. The new Imperial War Museum at South Kensington, opened on Armistice Day 1924. The museum remained in South Kensington for 11 years until its closure on Armistice Day 1935. It reopened at its current home on Lambeth Road in 1936.

The next 3 photograph show the Imperial War Museum's premises at Crystal Palace, South Kensington and Lambeth Road.

The first photograph shows the IWM Crystal Palace shortly before opening in 1920, with the IWM staff setting up a giant periscope which was part of a German Army mobile observation post used for reconnaissance purposes during the First World War, the giant periscope was extended to its full height on the lawn outside the Crystal Palace, London.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

The Imperial Institute building in South Kensington, London, part of which was the home of the Imperial War Museum from November 11th 1924 ( Armistice Day ) until November 11th 1935.

Sadly, part of the Imperial Institute building was demolished in the late 1950's.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

The Imperial War Museum's current building on Lambeth Road, London, housed in the former Bethlem Royal Hospital built in 1815, which was also known as ' Bedlam ', being formerly London's notorious lunatic asylum.

This photograph, was taken shortly before the new Imperial War Museum building was officially opened by the Duke of York ( later KGVI ) on 7th July, 1936.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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LF,

My Grandfather sadly no longer with us, When I was a child, he remembered the night the Crystal Palace burnt down. He lived in East London, so it must have been a tremendous blaze.

He never saw service in WW1, but I believe he was in the Army of Occupation. He had a reserved occupation in WW2, being a service engineer in what was then the Ilford Gaslight and Coke Company, later North Thames Gas......he was awarded the BEM, (I have his citation and photographs of him my Grandmother and my Mother at the Palace). In the heavy raids in September, his team were called out and managed to close off the main gas terminal valves situated at Canning Town....there was a UXB laying across the valves and main gas supply line....if it had gone off it would have caused massive damage and loss of the gas supply.

In his words, "he volunteered as he was able to drive in the blackout at full speed without the police stopping him !!!!!!!"

George.

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Lancashire Fusilier

My Grandfather sadly no longer with us, When I was a child, he remembered the night the Crystal Palace burnt down. He lived in East London, so it must have been a tremendous blaze.

George,

Next week, November 30th, it will be 79 years ( the night of 30th November 1936 ) since the Crystal Place burned down and as you say, a tremendous blaze, caused by a ruptured gas pipe in the old underfloor heating system that ignited the wooden floor.

Regards,

LF

2

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Lancashire Fusilier

The next morning, the full extent of destruction could be seen.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

With reference to post #4209, which shows a German Mobile Observation Periscope ( Mastfernrohr ) mast fully extended outside the IWM at Crystal Palace, this interesting mobile equipment used by the Germans for Artillery Observation, was fortunately retained after the move to South Kensignton, when so many other exhibits were disposed of or destroyed, and in fact, is now on display at IWM Duxford.

Here is a write-up on the IWM's Mastfernrohr :-

" German portable telescopic periscope, mounted on a two- wheeled carriage, both painted green. The periscope consists of a steel telescopic mast with upper and lower optical systems attached. The mast is carried in trunnions on the carriage. The periscope has gears to elevate, level and align the optical systems. They also adjust the inclination of the reflector and rotate the mast around its vertical axis.

The telescopic mast is made up of 8 tubes. The bottom tube is connected to the carriage, the other tubes are connected to each other by wire cables and pulleys. The uppermost tube is held in position by catches. When fully erect, the periscope is steadied by three or four guy ropes. One rope connects to the upper side of the lower end of the upper optical system. The other ropes are connected to the uppermost extended section of the mast.

The upper optical system consists of a short rectangular tube which contains a protective window. Behind this is a mirror, placed at an angle. The rectangular tube is attached at right angles to a conical casing, which contains two achromatic lenses. At the bottom of the conical casing is a large lens which has a crosshair on the glass. The lens is pitted near the centre. A strip of leather is attached around the bottom edge of the cone.

The lower optical system is made of a tube casing. At the top of the tube is a lens. There is another near the bottom of the casing. At the bottom of the casing is a prism. At the bottom of the tube is a revolving section with two eyepieces. These give different magnification, depending on the height of the mast. They are marked '3x-8x' and '5x-14x'. The body of periscope is impressed with the 'CARL ZEIS JENA' logo, with 'Nr 228' impressed beneath.

The mast has rungs to allow a person to climb to a metal seat, to push in locking lugs while the mast is being extended. There are two further seats on the carriage, with a handle at each for raising the mast. The two seats originally had padding (missing). At the end of the 'raising spindle' between the two seats, is a logo reading 'CMD' in raised letters.

The cable drum has two handles on either side to extend the periscope up to 25 metres, after the mast has been raised. The cable drum has a measuring bar across it, with the warning label 'Mast nicht uber 25m ausziehen' [Do not extend mast over 25 metres], and markings along the length of the bar, indicating the height of the mast. The cable drum also has markings on it, indicating the height of the mast, as the cables wrap around the drum when it is being extended and retracted. To the left of the cable drum is a small circular handle, impressed with the words 'Auf' and 'Ab' ['On' and 'Off'] with arrows pointing in opposite directions. To the right of the cable drum is a larger circular handle, impressed with the text 'LINKS' and 'RECHTS' ['LEFT' and 'RIGHT']. Below the cable drum is another bar, upon which is a plate reading 'Vor dem Ablegen auf [image of a circle with a vertical line through it] enstellen' with a larger image of a circle with a vertical line through it.

Above the cable drum is a slanted, flat surface upon which observations could be noted on documents or maps. Beneath the cable drum (when periscope is raised) is attached an 'L' shaped rod, to which a small seat, similar to a bicycle seat, was once affixed (now missing). The observer would have sat on this seat when the periscope was in operation.

The two carriage wheels are wooden, with steel rims and hubs. The wheels are painted green; the inside of each wheel is impressed 'Magirus-Ulm 1917'. On each side of the carriage, near the cable drum area, is a stabilising 'spindle plate'. "
The first 2 photographs show a captured German ' Mastfernrohr ' as seen outside Crystal Palace, and the photographs give very good details of both the 2-wheeled carriage and the fully extended mast.
LF
This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

Details of the ' Mastfernrohr's ' 2-wheeled carriage.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

A German Artillery Observation Unit with their retracted ' Mastfernrohr ', the large funnel shaped telescope seen at the top of the mast pointing downwards, would be raised up to a horizontal viewing position when in use.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Very interesting info, amazing shots of the Crystal Palace....I remember there being a motor racing venue at the park when I was younger.

I did look at the IWM site Crystal Palace, found the photo's except the ones of the barrel carriage being transported....some great photo's too of the German A7V being cut up !!!

Checked out the IWM entries for the science museum too....they have the blue prints for a lot of WW1 aircraft.....

LF, you seem to have quite a collection of info....by any chance, do have anything on the 6" howitzer....the earlier version (30 cwt)...the same one they have at Duxford ??

I have a number of walk-round shots, the curator allowed me access.....but some where there is a plan drawing.

George

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Lancashire Fusilier

LF, you seem to have quite a collection of info....by any chance, do have anything on the 6" howitzer....the earlier version (30 cwt)...the same one they have at Duxford ??

I have a number of walk-round shots, the curator allowed me access.....but some where there is a plan drawing.

George,

I can certainly help you with that, the attached diagram shows the B.L. 6-inch 30 cwt Howitzer, the same as that at Duxford, and is taken from the MkI & MkI* Howitzer's official handbook, of which I have a copy, and I shall gladly forward you a copy by PM later today.

The 183+ pages detail everything about the 6-inch 30 cwt Howitzer, including many diagrams, and are must if you are building one.

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

Here is a fully extended German ' Mastfernrohr ', set up in an Artillery Observation Post in the village of Nonne Boschen near Ypres in the West Flanders region of Belgium.

I assume the large conical telescope at the top, is kept facing downwards when not is use, so that the telescope's optical lens does not reflect sunlight and give away the Mastfernrohr's location.

Also of note, are the superbly camouflaged wooden ladders leading to the treetop observation deck in the tree on the left of the photograph.

This photograph, was taken in April 1916.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Another stage in the history of the IWM's example of the mast periscope - this photo was taken at Duxford in about 1987 when the mast came out of store to be examined and a decision taken to see if it was suitable for restoration and safe display when the London building and galleries had their previous re-development in 1989.

M

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Lancashire Fusilier

Another stage in the history of the IWM's example of the mast periscope - this photo was taken at Duxford in about 1987 when the mast came out of store to be examined and a decision taken to see if it was suitable for restoration and safe display when the London building and galleries had their previous re-development in 1989.

M

Mike,

A great photograph, and a good decision by the IWM to keep and restore the ' Mastfernrohr ', as there can only be just a few surviving.

The attached photograph, shows the Mastfernrohr now at Duxford.

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Thanks LF,

That is the one, I saw a plan of the gun, but the relevant page was folded over.....I have the side elevation, but the sides have an odd taper in plan view, I took photographs at Duxford. I did take a few measurements at the time, but they are lost.

Yes, it is one I am anticipating doing, the manual has details of the gun, which I have downloaded, so far I have the barrel and cradle made, but for the carriage, I need more info.

If the book had detail for the limber, that would be handy.

Future plans, I have the American FWD Type B mostly complete, Tim Gosling has two restored, he sent me a mass of info, but there are photo's of an FWD towing this gun...I know it was not used for a long period on the Western front, but some went to Gallipoli, others used by other armies and I think Palestine.

We plan two versions, the British load carrier and the US ammunition carrier. Still lots to do, but getting there slowly.....as time permits.

I specialize in British (Commonwealth) equipment, WW1, inter war and early WW2.

Thanks for the help......you are a mine of information.

George.

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Following info.

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The FWD was used for the 6" 26cwt howitzer, also the 8"...though I think it would have struggled......later versions need a revised radiator as they were prone to overheating.

George.

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Lancashire Fusilier

Future plans, I have the American FWD Type B mostly complete,

The FWD was used for the 6" 26cwt howitzer, also the 8"...though I think it would have struggled......later versions need a revised radiator as they were prone to overheating.

George.

George,

Here is a link to several pages of information and photographs on the ' FWD ', including the above photograph, which I posted back on 18th October 2014, starting with post #2593, I think you will find it interesting :-

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=173218&page=104

I have also emailed you a copy of the 6-inch 30 cwt Howitzer official Handbook.

Regards,

LF

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