WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

[Lancashire Fusilier]

By the Welsh Harp

johnboy,

Many thanks for that nice clear photograph of the amphibious version of the Mark IX Tank, known as the ' Mark IX Duck ', seen being tested at the Welsh Harp.

The Mark IX Tank, designed by Lieut. G. J. Rackham in September 1917, was the first Tank designed specifically as a troop carrier, with it's engine mounted well forward, leaving a large clear compartment behind the engine for troops, with access via 2 large oval doors on each side of the Tank.

Only 35 Mark IX Tanks were ever produced, and with the first not being manufactured until October 1918, they arrived too late for service during WW1.

Attached is another photograph of the Mark IX Duck being tested in deeper water at the Welsh Harp, and also a photograph of the Mark IX troop carrying Tank.

Regards,

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The Mark IX Troop Carrier Tank.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The Imperial War Museum's Medium Mark C ' Hornet ' Tank is seen starting it's journey from the grounds of the Crystal Palace, where it had been on display since June 1920, to the Government's Department of Tank Design establishment at Cricklewood, North London.

The Hornet is being winched forward from the higher ground seen in the background, onto the roadway, by a Pickfords Haulage Co's Aveling and Porter GND 5 ton tractor's rear axle mounted winch, the Steam Tractor is also fitted with 'Tangental' wooden spoked front wheels,

To deal with the 19.5 ton ' Hornet ' load, the Steam Tractor is itself secured to a lorry in front ( outside of this photograph ), and large wooden blocks have been placed behind the rear-wheels of the Steam Tractor to prevent it being moved backwards.

This move from Crystal Palace to Cricklewood follows the decision by the IWM not to relocate the ' Hornet ' Tank to the new IWM at South Kensington, which opened in 1924.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Tomo.T]

Hi LF, Your steam tractor is an Aveling and Porter GND 5 ton tractor, fitted with 'Tangental' wooden spoked front wheels. The driver is using the rear axle mounted winch to haul the Hornet onto the road.

Regards,

Tomo

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Hi LF, Your steam tractor is an Aveling and Porter GND 5 ton tractor, fitted with 'Tangental' wooden spoked front wheels. The driver is using the rear axle mounted winch to haul the Hornet onto the road.

Regards,

Tomo

Tomo,

Many thanks for the excellent information, and I was hoping that someone like yourself who knows about Steam Tractors would put an accurate name to that Tractor.

I assumed it was being winched, hence the wood blocks behind the Tractor's rear wheels.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Aveling and Porter GND 5 ton tractor.

Tomo,

Here is another Aveling & Porter Steam Tractor belonging to the Army Service Corps, this tractor also saw service during the Second Boer War in 1901.

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Modelmaker]

Tomo,

Here is another Aveling & Porter Steam Tractor belonging to the Army Service Corps, this tractor also saw service during the Second Boer War in 1901.

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

This thread is getting better by the day.

I would be interested in getting hold of details, especially drawings of traction engines used by the ASC (14-18). It is a long term project to produce a kit of one to complement the range.

I am not particular as to the manufacturer, Foden, Marshall, Maclaren, et al. I just need some dimensions and details, I have a copy of George Watkins book on traction engines, which has some good details.

A friend in South Africa has sent me some great walk-round photo's of their exhibit of the 2 wheeled 3" AA gun, which I believe did serve in WW1 and soldered on into 1940. You can pm me if you need to see them.

George.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

This thread is getting better by the day.

I would be interested in getting hold of details, especially drawings of traction engines used by the ASC (14-18). It is a long term project to produce a kit of one to complement the range.

I am not particular as to the manufacturer, Foden, Marshall, Maclaren, et al. I just need some dimensions and details, I have a copy of George Watkins book on traction engines, which has some good details.

A friend in South Africa has sent me some great walk-round photo's of their exhibit of the 2 wheeled 3" AA gun, which I believe did serve in WW1 and soldered on into 1940. You can pm me if you need to see them.

George.

George,

Many thanks, and if you look up ' Steam ' in this Thread's search box, it will bring up several nice WW1 Steam Vehicle photographs and information. I have also sent you a PM.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Here is another photograph of the Medium Mark C Hornet Tank starting it's journey from the IWM at Crystal Palace to the Government's Department of Tank Design establishment at Cricklewood, North London.

This photograph gives a better view of the Pickfords' Aveling and Porter GND 5 ton tractor using it's rear axle mounted winch to pull the Hornet from it's former display position on the higher ground seen in the background, and we can also see the front of the Steam Tractor being firmly chained to the back of a lorry to give it much better stability while winching.

Also, note the various other remaining IWM Tank exhibits still in their display positions on the higher ground behind, and the Hornet's Driver's viewing hatch fully opened.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Although the Medium Mark C ' Hornet ' Tank was produced too late in 1918 to see service in WW1, it was selected to be part of the Tank Corps' contingent which took part in London's Victory Parade held on Saturday, 19th July, 1919.

Four Tank Corps ' Hornet ' Tanks took part in the London Victory Parade, which is described in the following article :-

" The First World War armistice came into effect at 11am on 11 November 1918, the 'eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month'. According to the Daily Mirror, London went 'wild with delight' when it heard the news:

Bells burst forth into joyful chimes...bands paraded the streets followed by cheering crowds of soldiers and civilians and London generally gave itself up wholeheartedly to rejoicing .... There was a scene of wonderful loyalty at Buckingham Palace, dense crowds were shouting "We want the King!"'

Armistice marked the end of fighting on the Western Front, but formal negotiations at the Paris Peace Conference continued into 1919. The Allies' formal peace treaty with Germany, the Treaty of Versailles, was not officially signed until 28 June.

As negotiations continued, the British government planned a public celebration. The Peace Committee was established to decide how Britain would mark the end of the war.

The committee first met in London on 9 May 1919, chaired by the Foreign Secretary, Lord Curzon. Its initial proposal of a four-day August celebration was scaled down and brought forward after the Paris signing. A single day of festivities was planned for 19 July.

The proposal did not receive universal approval. Some felt that the funds would be better spent on support for returning servicemen, many of whom struggled to cope with physical and mental injuries and high unemployment levels.

London became the focus of nationwide Peace Day celebrations on Saturday 19 July. A huge military camp sprang up in Kensington Gardens and thousands of people descended on the capital.

Hundreds spent Friday night in parks and streets to secure a good position along the parade route. By eight o'clock on Saturday morning it was almost impossible to cross Trafalgar Square.

Nearly 15,000 servicemen took part in the Victory parade, led by the Allied commanders. In Whitehall the parade saluted a temporary wood and plaster monument, the Cenotaph, dedicated to 'The Glorious Dead'.

Entertainments and performances continued throughout the day in London's central parks. At 9.45pm, Hyde Park hosted a lavish and spectacular firework display finale.

On Armistice Day 1920, the body of an Unknown Warrior was buried at Westminster Cathedral. At 11am, the King unveiled the new Cenotaph in Whitehall, now a permanent memorial in Portland stone. As the 11 chimes faded away, the crowd observed two minutes' silence.

Two minutes' silence are still observed on Armistice Day. Official commemorations are also held at the Cenotaph on Remembrance Day, the closest Sunday to 11 November, each year. "

Here are a series of photographs showing the Medium Mark C Hornet Tank taking part in the London Victory Parade held on Saturday, July 19th, 1919, with the first photograph showing the Hornets parading down Whitehall and passing the temporary wood and plaster Cenotaph ( designed by Sir Edwin Lutyens ), which in 1920, was replaced by the permanent Portland stone Cenotaph monument.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The four Tank Corps' Medium Mark C Hornet Tanks taking part in London's 19th July, 1919 Victory Parade, are seen passing Buckingham Palace.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The Tank Corps' 4 Medium Mark C Hornet Tanks taking part in London's 19th July 1919 Victory Parade, are seen crossing Westminster Bridge.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A different view of the 4 Tank Corps' Medium Mark C Hornet Tanks crossing Westminster Bridge during the 1919 London Victory Parade, as shown in a contemporary picture postcard.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

My final photograph relating to the Tank Corps' 4 Medium Mark C Hornet Tanks taking part in the 1919 London Victory Parade, shows the Hornets parading along Westminster Bridge Road.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

With the production of the Medium Mark C ' Hornet ' Tank coming too late in 1918 for any Hornets to see service during WW1, those Medium Mark C Tanks which were produced at the end of WW1 were issued to the Tank Corps, with their post-WW1 service being relatively uneventful apart from their deployment to Glasgow at the end of January 1919, to deal with widespread civil unrest and rioting related to Glasgow worker's protesting their long work week hours and other related labour issues.

With the City of Glasgow Police being overwhelmed and unable to control the estimated 60,000 protesters and the ensuing fierce battles between the Police and the rioters, the then Secretary of State for War, Winston Churchill, fearing the start of a

' Bolshevik Uprising ' as had been seen in some other European countries following the end of WW1, Churchill decided to send British troops to Glagow to put down the riots and restore order.

Despite there being various ' Scottish ' Battalions readily available to be deployed to Glagow to assist the Police, fearing that the Scottish soldiers may in fact go to the aid of the Scottish rioters, it was further decided that troops would be sent North from England.

Churchill sent some 10,000 soldiers to Glasgow to restore order, including a Squadron of Tank Corps' Medium Mark C Hornet Tanks, and it was their deployment on the streets of Glasgow which greatly assisted the Glasgow Police in restoring order to the City.

The Tank Corps' Hornet Tanks were stationed in the Glasgow Cattle Market, in the Gallowgate area of the City, with this deployment being their only time ' in action '.

The following photographs were taken during the Medium Mark C Hornet Tanks deployment during the 1919 Glasgow riots, and the ensuing ' Battle of George Square '.

The first photograph shows one of the Tank Corps' Medium Mark C Hornet Tanks parked on a Glagow street during the January/February 1919 civil unrest.

This photograph gives good details of the ' Hornet ; Tank and shows both the open rear crew access hatch, as well as the open double-door access hatch in the roof of the forward fixed turret.

Also of note, is the ' Brigade ' marking painted on the rear of the Tank.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Uncle George]

Churchill was Home Sec. from 1910 to 1911. From 1919 to 1921 he was S of S for War.

EDIT: I see that the Wikipedia article on the Battle of George Square also mistakenly has WSC as Home Sec. in 1919.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_George_Square

ANOTHER EDIT: As does this article:

http://iainthepict.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/bloody-friday-battle-of-george-square.html

This mistake would appear to have had its own momentum.

[Gardenerbill]

Some things never change, like the two children on the left of the photograph probably brought by Dad to see the tank.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Churchill was Home Sec. from 1910 to 1911. From 1919 to 1921 he was S of S for War.

EDIT: I see that the Wikipedia article on the Battle of George Square also mistakenly has WSC as Home Sec. in 1919.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_George_Square

ANOTHER EDIT: As does this article:

http://iainthepict.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/bloody-friday-battle-of-george-square.html

This mistake would appear to have had its own momentum.

Many thanks for the correction, and as you say, Winston Churchill was Home Secretary from 1910 to 1913, and then in January 1919, became Secretary of State for War.

Also, many thanks for the links to the very interesting articles on the 1919 Glasgow riots and the ' Battle of George Square '.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Some things never change, like the two children on the left of the photograph probably brought by Dad to see the tank.

You are so right, and you can see from the look in the little boy's face exactly what he is thinking ............. when I grow up, I want to drive an Army Tank.

Regards,

LF

[Uncle George]

Winston Churchill was Home Secretary from 1910 to 1913, and then in January 1919, became Secretary of State for War

LF

One wonders who was responsible for sending these troops in 1919: that is to say, was it Churchill (as SofS for War), or was it the Home Secretary (Edward Shortt)?

I suspect that this event has been conflated with the Tonypandy riots of 1910: on this occasion, the decision to send troops was made by the Home Secretary (Churchill).

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

I suspect that this event has been conflated with the Tonypandy riots of 1910: on this occasion, the decision to send troops was made by the Home Secretary (Churchill).

As in Llanelli in 1911.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

As in Llanelli in 1911.

Who's going to argue with Dai Bach y Sowldiwr ?

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

One wonders who was responsible for sending these troops in 1919: that is to say, was it Churchill (as SofS for War), or was it the Home Secretary (Edward Shortt)?

As the decision taken involved deploying 10,000 troops, including Tanks and Artillery, along with their equipment, support and transportation, such a decision would have needed to have been taken by, and would have been the responsibility of, the then Secretary of State for War, Winston Churchill.

The Home Secretary, would also have been involved coordinating the deployed troops with the City of Glasgow Police Force.

Interestingly, here is a Mentioned in Despatches Certificate ( General Allenby mentions ) from my Collection, one of four I have awarded to that particular D.S.O. recipient, which shows the signature of Winston Churchill, Secretary of State for War, with the usual issue date of 1st March, 1919.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

This photograph shows several of the Tank Corps' Medium Mark C Hornet Tanks which were deployed to Glasgow during the 1919 riots, and stationed in the Glasgow Cattle Market located in the Gallowgate area of the City, with this deployment being their only time ' in action '.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Exactly 4 years ago today - December 17, 2011, at around this time, I started this Thread, and now 173 pages and 97,730 views later ......................

Here are the remaining posts relating to the Medium Mark C ' Hornet ' Tank, before moving on to a new topic.

The first is a very nicely detailed coloured painting of the ' Hornet ' Tank, and the other, a nice technical drawing of the Medium Mark C Hornet Tank.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.