Garron Posted 23 October , 2011 Share Posted 23 October , 2011 1907 Pattern, Early Lithgow by the A in the star, (I think it changed later on to a L in a star or shield ) issued to 2 M.D which I think is New South Wales. It had the round frog stud so it may have seen service post war but its shame I cant see it whole as it could be the smaller stud that Lithgow used too. Sorry I have been quiet, had my contract upped in work and have been working some strange shift patterns of late. Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 23 October , 2011 Author Share Posted 23 October , 2011 Good stuff Gaz. You could almost make it as an 'honoury Aussie' with all that knowledge.! There are still a couple of other clues apparent that you haven't yet mentioned though .... PS. Yes I have been quite busy also, but that project is finishing up now - until the next one, that is ... Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 24 October , 2011 Author Share Posted 24 October , 2011 So looking at this photo again, we can see that it's a Lithgow P1907 example that was made in the GW era (from the two A/Star symbols that straddle the bend-test X mark) These symbols were used from the start of production at Lithgow, through to about the mid 1920's. The other smaller inspection mark can help us to narrow this period down. As Gaz has mentioned, they also used a letter L in a shield marking, which can be found on most GW dated examples. This marking did change towards the end of the war. So very late-war and early post-war bayonets are usually found with the small A/Star over the Roman numeral III, just like the symbol that is shown on this example below. Some other pointers that can help us to date this set include the style of scabbard, as Gaz has suggested. Note the frog stud is not the tear-drop style but the large round type. The steel topmount is also the straight cut 'economy' style at the bottom, and not the figured or curved type. The combination of these things suggests a later period scabbard. Another giveaway on this photo, as far as the dating goes, is the presence of paint on both the bayonet crossguard and screw and on the scabbard topmount. This is not GW. The use of paint for camouflage purposes is commonly associated with kit that was used in WW2, and when we look at the coloured photo this becomes much more visible. The tone of the camouflage paint is clearly Desert Yellow and is an indication that this bayonet was probably used by the Australians in the fighting in North Africa during WW2. So while a particular bayonet can be GW dated, that does not necessarily mean it should be classed as a "GW bayonet", they often continued on to have a much longer career. This is important to consider when we start talking about 'period correct examples', as the majority of bayonets found today will have been refinished or refurbished at some point. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 24 October , 2011 Share Posted 24 October , 2011 I did wonder why it was a black and white photo, thought it may have been artistic, the idea of it being painted didn't click at all. I was tempted to say it may have been a quillion removed being an early Lithgow but wasn't 100% sure of just how early it was. Would have covered all bases that way. I agree finding a 100% original as it left the factory bayonet isn't easy, most that stayed in service will have had some work done to them. This is what I worked last week, I should technically get 2 days off a week, Monday was supposed to be the other day off I ended up working in another store doing my job role as their guy was off sick and couldn't find anyone at their store to do it :rollseyes: Sun 17-22 Mon 0800-1700 Tues (Day off ) Wed 0730-1300 Thurs 1500- 2200 Fri 0630 - 1030 Saturday 0700-1200 1800-2200 39.5 Hours... not bad for a 20 hour contract I may just be able to buy that repro Welsh trench dagger I've been eyeing up on the IMA website Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 8 November , 2011 Share Posted 8 November , 2011 Hello chaps, just got back last night & off to arbroath again today until friday but thought I would pop in & leave a couple of pics of some of the swag that I picked up on my journeys around our fair land. What can we glean from the P07 picks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 8 November , 2011 Share Posted 8 November , 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 8 November , 2011 Share Posted 8 November , 2011 Off to Arbroath? Better kippers up the road in Craster, mon! Good to have you back, Aleck. That's a very nice haul - won't ask where you will put them at home...! Don't know the top one (which looks in excellent nick), but that it is a very nice 1903, which I would not mind having. The P1907 is also nice... Well, apart from the obvious (is that 'R' a refurbish mark?), SAAF: my first thoughts ( no cheating, no g******g), would be 'South African Armed Forces'... I'll have a gander at G****e later, and see how wrong I can be Best, Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 8 November , 2011 Share Posted 8 November , 2011 The top one is a P1879 Artillery Bayonet for the Martini Henry Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 8 November , 2011 Author Share Posted 8 November , 2011 The top one is a P1879 Artillery Bayonet for the Martini Henry Nice bayonets, hey Gaz.! You may need to broaden your 'hunting ground' by the looks of it ... Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 9 November , 2011 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2011 Hello chaps, What can we glean from the P07 picks? G'day Aleck, some nice pickups there. Your P1907 has been issued to the South African Air Force (SAAF) at some point. Note the arrow within the large letter U on the other side of the pommel, this is the symbol for the Union of South Africa. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 9 November , 2011 Share Posted 9 November , 2011 ... the South African Air Force (SAAF)... Cheers, S>S Makes much better sense. Guess I have a mental block about fly-boys with bayonets, forgetting the guys who have to guard the bases. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 November , 2011 Share Posted 10 November , 2011 So, let's try something new - a fairly straightforward item if you know you bayonets: and if you don't, welcome to the learning curve! What's this one? Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 10 November , 2011 Share Posted 10 November , 2011 Is it a M1891 bayonet for the Mosin Nagant? One of the only socket bayonets I can think of connected to ww1 (plus the Austrian Erzats twist type bayonets) Yes S>S, finding a new hunting ground is on the to-do list, just need some time off work to have a look. My shifts have been starting at 11am recently so haven't really had much time to look Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 10 November , 2011 Share Posted 10 November , 2011 Looks like a m1891 mosin nagant to me too. I just picked up an m1891 in an ersatz scabbard of Austrian manufacture... presumably it switched allegiances during the early years of ww1... As I understand it the Russians didnt have scabbards for their m1891 bayonets, they just left them permanently attached to the rifle. Quite odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 November , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2011 Does the measuring tape form part of the clues.?? Blade length seems a little short at 130mm ... wait, don't tell me that it's been 'turked' as well.!! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 11 November , 2011 Share Posted 11 November , 2011 I just knew that one was just too easy...! It is indeed a 1891 Mosin Nagant. The obverse (t'other side!) is a bit rusted (and uncleaned as yet), but there are some traces of what seem to be the letters 'CH' and so I think it was a German capture, and once upon a time stamped 'DEUTSCHLAND'. Unfortunately it came scabbard-less and there is a crack in the socket, but it does mean that I now have at least one bayonet from all the major powers and one also from some of the minor players in WWI - well, no USA one as yet, but as they came in really late I don't put them in the same category! No, it's not been Turked... Would have been nice, in a way, if it had been! Then a REAL rarity!!! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 12 November , 2011 Share Posted 12 November , 2011 Nice to be back folks, if only for a day- just got back a couple of hours ago but have to set of for bloody Woking at 11am tomorrow. Quite right all of you but can we tell anything about the time frame of its service? Also found this battered old warrior, cant seem to resist them even in this condition. Not quite right for this forum but got myself a Nice Ashoka marked 2A SMLE & near mint RFI mk3 bayonet. Rifle should go great with the Ashoka marked P1907 mk1 ** bayonet in the collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 15 November , 2011 Share Posted 15 November , 2011 ... Also found this battered old warrior, cant seem to resist them even in this condition. HA! If you think this is battered you should see mine! But it looks nice, and a nice scabbard as well, and I can understand the feeling - whether a P1888 or a P1903, they look so loveable - although I still rate theSwedish model 1896 and its scabbard as the best looking of all bayonets! BUT, I can't get the maker's marking on this one... Something ''**FIELD', so ENFIELD? But what comes before the '**FIELD' part? Good luck in Woking! (no kippers there, though!!!) Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 15 November , 2011 Share Posted 15 November , 2011 BUT, I can't get the maker's marking on this one... Something ''**FIELD', so ENFIELD? But what comes before the '**FIELD' part? "SANDERSON SHEFFIELD" I'm guessing... http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=151202 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 15 November , 2011 Share Posted 15 November , 2011 Yes, I thought of that, but I could only think of 'Sanderson and Newbould, Sheffield', which wouldn't fit! As a newbie in bayonet studies, I am happy - as always - to be corrected, i.e., 'Sanderson Sheffield' only to year 1XXX, then Sanderson and Newbould after then? Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 15 November , 2011 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2011 Just for you Trajan - here is another view of the Sanderson Sheffield makers marking found on the P1888 and P1903 bayonets. This one has certainly been well used over a period, perhaps someone would like to explain its service history from the stamps.? I think this may have been a 'garrison' bayonet as it is unusual to find all the reissue inspectors stamps with the B for Birmingham. Cheers, S>S EDIT. Just noticed that I brought up something of a milestone with this last post.! (ie. total number of posts) I must say that I feel a bit like the cricketer who has just brought up the 'ton' ... I shall wave my bat towards the GWF 'stands' and proudly kiss the Aussie 'coat of arms' on the helmet, etc, etc ... And if there's one thing that I have learned on this forum - is that you must always wear your helmet.! Cheers one & All. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 16 November , 2011 Share Posted 16 November , 2011 Just for you Trajan - here is another view of the Sanderson Sheffield makers marking ... perhaps someone would like to explain its service history from the stamps. this may have been a 'garrison' bayonet as ... all the reissue inspectors stamps with the B for Birmingham. Cheers, S>S EDIT. Just noticed that I brought up something of a milestone with this last post.! (ie. total number of posts) Thanks. S>S - and congratulations on the ton of tons! That's a lovely looking P 1888 bayonet and I'll try to get back to you on those markings when classes have finished! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 16 November , 2011 Share Posted 16 November , 2011 I'll try to get back to you on those markings when classes have finished! Trajan Jut a few quick comments. This was isued 4/98? My oldest P1888 is marked 12'90, and my youngest (ok, my second P1888!) is marked 11'96, so I don't get the slash in 4/98... Otherwise, a hell of a lot of markings and reissues in '99,and '02. But I thought I saw a '96 as well, which does not tie in... This is a funny one, and I think I could spend an hour or so on it - but my excuse is nippers and dinner calling! Looking forward to comments from others - and you! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 16 November , 2011 Share Posted 16 November , 2011 But even quicker writing than the last post - dinner is served! As we are on P1888's again, any comments on the press studs here? Top one is 12'90, Wilkinson, no crown mark, so volunteer purchase(?); bottom one is 11'96 Enfield, with crown mark. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 17 November , 2011 Author Share Posted 17 November , 2011 This is a funny one, and I think I could spend an hour or so on it - but my excuse is nippers and dinner calling! OK Trajan, this was made by Sanderson in April 1894 (4/94) then inspected and reissued again in '96, '99, '02 and '05. You can see the 4 separate Crown over B inspection stamps, so there must be the 4 different reissue dates - the '05 is over the VR.! Regarding the press studs, they all have a circular nut over the threaded bolt end of the release catch. Some are more worn than others. They were worn up against the leather frog hanging on the belt, so some became very worn with the nut totally rounded off and smooth. The less worn examples still retain their original shape and are not worn down to the end of the bolt. Less tightened nuts can look similar. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts