simon2 Posted 26 January , 2012 Share Posted 26 January , 2012 I am trying to find ones nearer 1914 but no luck at the moment. This group shows the various orders of dress for the York and Lancaster Regiment in India 1907. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon2 Posted 26 January , 2012 Share Posted 26 January , 2012 1/4th Battalion Somerset Light Infantry India 1915/16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon2 Posted 26 January , 2012 Share Posted 26 January , 2012 Seaforth Highlanders India 1906/07. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 26 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2012 Simon, thank you for cuff detail and the further ills., much appreciated. This thread has become a very good archive indeed. The cuffs appear to be tailored pseudo-doublet cuff style, not unexpected after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 27 January , 2012 Share Posted 27 January , 2012 1/4th Battalion Somerset Light Infantry India 1915/16 Simon, he has Overseas Service Chevrons on his right cuff, so the photo cannot date before 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Baigent Posted 27 January , 2012 Share Posted 27 January , 2012 i have read and agree to abide by the rules of the great war forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomcatPC Posted 27 January , 2012 Share Posted 27 January , 2012 Thank you for the photo of the bloke from the Somerset Light Infantry. My Dad's family is from Somerset and that is one of the regiments that I have the most interest in. Thanks Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon2 Posted 27 January , 2012 Share Posted 27 January , 2012 Simon, he has Overseas Service Chevrons on his right cuff, so the photo cannot date before 1918. Andrew you are so right. When I first saw the pic and the accompanying title, something bothered me but did not follow up on that. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 28 January , 2012 Share Posted 28 January , 2012 Grumpy, It's been awhile since I've been on this thread. Here is a photo that shows the KD Frock with lowered billowed pockets post 1918. I am assuming Indian manufacture--I have an original almost identical but have no way of putting pictures on that I already haven't saved to my hard Drive--When I do will post. No idea where picture was taken (or when although not pre 1918) but shows men from a mix of units--off photo to the right are men with cut away standard SD jackets. The man on extreme left is wearing ????? I have a 1915 dated Canadian jacket identical --is he Canadian? I have one question---WTF are these men doing? I originally bought the photo thinking they were holding shaving eguipment--they aren't. In there right hands they are holding a container of some sort and in the left a glass bottle with what appears cotton stuffed in the top. Some kind of Sanitary Training? Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 28 January , 2012 Share Posted 28 January , 2012 Grumpy - borrowed this one courtesey of Leigh Kitchen and the Gentlemans Military Interest Club. Wasn't sure if you'd seen it, but could be a nice addition for your records. Aclose up of the helmet & badge. Graham, Nice photo--these two button flaps were common on KD patterns predating UK pattern 3687e/1899 28 July 1899, Frocks Khaki Drill Highlanders. This pattern changed the shape of the pocket flaps and collar and position of the flaps. This might be UK pattern 3687d/1895 Frocks Khaki Drill Highlanders. (A Guess) What I have not done nor have the paper work copied on these early pre 1900 stuff is deconcflict UK patterns with India. Pattern 3687e specifically sttaed that it assimilated the Indian Pattern. This only lasted until about 1903 when UK and Inmdian Patterns went their seperate ways again until 1924 when the UK adopted the Indian pattern again. I can assume that India seemed to be ahead in preferred patterns. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 28 January , 2012 Share Posted 28 January , 2012 Here is a Gordon just to get things started. Frogsmile, I think we might have exchanges on this image but I'll bet postwar either Indian Pattern or if after 1924 could by UK pattern. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 28 January , 2012 Share Posted 28 January , 2012 Royal Dublin Fusiliers showing diamond shaped flash on side of Wolseley helmet and shoulder titles but no collar badges. Frogsmile, This is 100% 1915 or post 1915. I know WF and G had an email exchange and WF is correct in his initial assessment--He is wearing pattern 8226/1915-march 1915-Simplified Universal Frock. I believe Grovetown may have a nice example with paper label or you can go Military Antiques Uk to see an example with a partial paper label. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 28 January , 2012 Share Posted 28 January , 2012 In my frantic searching I found a couple more pictures which may be of interest: 2 more Seaforths in Trews with KD tunics (tailored skirts) and a rather nice KD uniform study. I think these are both from India but I cannot be 100% certain. Chris EDIT: Shoulder title on the second picture is RFA. Nice photos. The top photo looks like Indian Pattern--Scalloped pockets are hard to tell if made that way as it was extremely common with KD and SD to scallop the pockets via needle and thread and scissors. I would guess that frock started out with a normal straight pockt flap. Second photo isUK Simplified Frock (post 1915) picture could have been taken anywhere. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 28 January , 2012 Share Posted 28 January , 2012 so this would be TYPE 1 flaps? (but with turn down collar) This would be Type 1 flaps (with mandarin collar) and this would be TYPE 2 flaps? (with turn down collar) I am not finding "lancer" cuffs on many of my pictures - I do have some post war KD pictures (with ribbons) which still exhibit some variety in collars and pockets Chris Chris, My guess on these would be. Photo one---UK pattern of potentially pattern 5875/1903, 5875a/1906, 5875b/1908, and I believe a 1917 pattern change I did not put in my notes. The only way to tell difference is see inside or find sticth lines. Photo 2. UK simplified frock---Pantaloons are interesting- I haven't found any UK sealed patterns for KD pantaloons--However Indian Clothing Regs refer to KD pantaloons. I do think TM may have a set of KD pantalloons marked by the RACD so still a mystery if the above pictured pantaloons are not of Indian or private purchase origian. Third Photo Indian Pattern Introduced after 1900 (1903????)--Although this topic is India 1914 I see we have deviated quite a bit and The prior (1900-1903) Indian Patterns had stand collar and pointed pocket flaps which looks very much like the UK simplified of wartime issue except I believe the early Indian had pointed cuffs. \ The flip flopping of patterns both India and UK did does not help and the apparent variablity seen in particular Indian derived frocks. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 28 January , 2012 Share Posted 28 January , 2012 Chris, My guess on these would be. Photo one---UK pattern of potentially pattern 5875/1903, 5875a/1906, 5875b/1908, and I believe a 1917 pattern change I did not put in my notes. The only way to tell difference is see inside or find sticth lines. Photo 2. UK simplified frock---Pantaloons are interesting- I haven't found any UK sealed patterns for KD pantaloons--However Indian Clothing Regs refer to KD pantaloons. I do think TM may have a set of KD pantalloons marked by the RACD so still a mystery if the above pictured pantaloons are not of Indian or private purchase origian. Third Photo Indian Pattern Introduced after 1900 (1903????)--Although this topic is India 1914 I see we have deviated quite a bit and The prior (1900-1903) Indian Patterns had stand collar and pointed pocket flaps which looks very much like the UK simplified of wartime issue except I believe the early Indian had pointed cuffs. \ The flip flopping of patterns both India and UK did does not help and the apparent variablity seen in particular Indian derived frocks. Joe Sweeney Joe, thanks for all your informative posts here with regard to patterns. It would be so good if you could publish a collected study one day. I am sure there would be a market for it. Of all the uniforms I find the KD the most difficult to pin down and like you feel that there were just so many varieties and modifications via needle and thread and Dhurzis (bazaar tailors), let alone the flip flopping of the Home and India Establishment clothing regulations and manufacture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 28 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2012 Joe, thanks for all your informative posts here with regard to patterns. It would be so good if you could publish a collected study one day. I am sure there would be a market for it. Of all the uniforms I find the KD the most difficult to pin down and like you feel that there were just so many varieties and modifications via needle and thread and Dhurzis (bazaar tailors), let alone the flip flopping of the Home and India Establishment clothing regulations and manufacture. and the added complication of postings to/from India regarding Home [tunics, scarlet frocks] and the warm colonies [the KD] ....... no wonder the photos give us so much cause for discussion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 28 January , 2012 Share Posted 28 January , 2012 I have cards which depict numerous Regiments and Forces of the British Indian Army, these cards were published when India was still part of the British Empire, pre-WW2, and reading the information on the cards, most, if not all of these forces fought in WW1. I presume many of the Regiments still had British Officers at that time, who would have also worn many of these same uniforms ? For example, the card for the Indian Mountain Artillery states it to be part of the Royal Artillery ? As many of these Regiments probably no longer exist, I thought it would be important to post these very colourful uniforms for enjoyment by the members. There is much information on the back of each card, so if anyone has questions about any particular Regiment or Force, please let me know. LF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 28 January , 2012 Share Posted 28 January , 2012 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 28 January , 2012 Share Posted 28 January , 2012 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 28 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2012 Very nice indeed. Thank you for taking the trouble. This thread is a valuable reference by now, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 28 January , 2012 Share Posted 28 January , 2012 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 28 January , 2012 Share Posted 28 January , 2012 Very nice indeed. Thank you for taking the trouble. This thread is a valuable reference by now, I think. My pleasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Snaffles Posted 6 July , 2013 Share Posted 6 July , 2013 Two questions: What was the general weight of the KD cloth for these? Was their a specific weight difference for India pattern KD and British pattern KD? Many thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bu6512 Posted 23 July , 2014 Share Posted 23 July , 2014 (edited) [url=http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=141173]Chandigarh copy.jpg[ I have been going though old threads and I stumbled over this photo, Is the chap standing in the middle wearing a gray back shirt as I thought the white strip on the front was introduced in Aug 1914? Mark Edited 23 July , 2014 by bu6512 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 23 July , 2014 Author Share Posted 23 July , 2014 Two questions: What was the general weight of the KD cloth for these? Was their a specific weight difference for India pattern KD and British pattern KD? Many thanks! Best bet is to contact THE EXPERT on this Forum, Joe Sweeney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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